TOPIC: BBC IPLAYER: The penis extension clinic

hoddle10 wrote: Hyaluronidase isn\'t always effective. At the end of the day no procedure is risk free. So Dr\'s have to do everything in their locker to minimise risk. I think a micro cannula is the least we should expect in that respect. If patients kick up enough fuss and demand it becomes standard Androfill will change their approach or someone else will come along and fill the void. If tomorrow the Viel twins on Harley Street, started offering micro cannula HA would you not be more tempted to go to them instead of Dr Horn?

can i just confirm coz ive gone a bit blurry (phalloboard amnesia): the cannulla that Androfill will use if requested to, is not a micro cannulla but a bigger cannulla in fact?

Dr. Oates, seems to me you\'ve been called out, as we say here in the states. This board represents a multitude of men from all around the world, who are seriously considering a procedure, such as yours. You have written compellingly about your procedure and technique. You now have a big opportunity to advance this industry by documenting your procedure with a video. This may well be a very important vehicle that can have a profound impact on this industry, and advance our collective cause.

Please confirm a few things before I decide whether or not to undergo your procedure in London.

1) If I want to have the HA injected with a micro cannula, can I choose this?

2) If I want HA in the glans will you use a cannula or a needle?

3) Moderator Edit: Off-topic inquiry.

Thanks

lol fucking lol

@gmac

Please keep discussion & inquiries mature. Thanks.

All,

I have been watching this board for some time.
I would echo the sentiments of mischeifmkr.

I have been to the Androfill practice 3 times now and I am a happy customer. On 2 occasions a micro cannula was used, and for the final procedure a syringe with needle was used. So it is a little confusing that Androfill state they use needle and not micro cannula. I was treated by Dr Horn on 1 occasion and another doctor (the name escapes me) on the other 2 occasions.

My final result is very impressive --7 inches at its widest mid way, 6.8 inches for most of the rest of the 7.5-8 Inch length, slightly thinner towards the head.

There were a few bumps along the way, ups and downs in terms of my feelings about the result, but in the end I am very happy.

First the negatives. 1st session about 6 months ago, 8 syringes of filler using a very small micro cannula. The result was not exactly even when Erect and filler bulged at the Foreskin.

Also I had wanted the same thickness all the way along the length, which was not the result.

I was unhappy as I did not feel adequately informed about the risk of filler moving, and I thought this would be the final result. I was told that because I wore loose boxers and walked home the penis was not supported directly after the treatment. However, the requirement to wear supportive underwear if walking home had not been explained.

I also experienced some tightness in the Foreskin region, which to this day is more difficult to pull back and clean.

I started with Ultra which I do not like the feel of 6 months later compared to Voluma. Ultra feels soft like a thick jelly under the skin.

Positives.

After the first session of 8 syringes I had increased in Girth by about 1 Inch for about half the length of the penis. Although this decreased to .7 Inch gain after the swelling had gone down. Result was from 5.3 inches Erect to around 6 for half the length.

The filler bulge at the Foreskin was dissolved and I did not pay for this --although I would not have paid in any case.

The unevenness was corrected quite easily although I had to buy more filler. I ended up settling on 8 more boxes of filler. On the plus side I was rebilled for 24 syringes which worked out cheaper than buying 8 and then 16.

After the 2nd session using a micro cannula the result was enormous due partly to swelling. When Erect I measured just shy of 7.5 inches. It was a sight to behold, but difficult for my partner. After swelling had gone down I was around 6.8 inches, for 80% of the shaft, all the way to the base and most of the way to the head --thinner at the head.

This time there was only very minor unevenness when Erect. I was still not satisfied and have had a further 6 syringes to make 30 total.

I am now just on 7 inches Girth solidly for most of the length of the penis except the end. The result when hard is perfectly smooth and symmetrical, and it has added to my relationship with my wife in the bedroom.

However, the head now looks small in comparison to the shaft.

As I have now had 30 syringes of Hyaluronic Acid filler I can not have any more for 1 year according to Androfill. I would have liked 5 syringes in the head to even out the result but they refusing to accept bookings. This is somewhat irritating as they knew they were creating a huge penis shaft, and should have seen that the head would look too small by comparison. I will have to wait for a year to increase the size of the head if I wait for Androfill.

Overall the experience has been good, aside from the filler moving, and quite a lot of bruising and swelling after the second session.

I am keen for recommendations for clinics in the UK that offer filler to the head of the penis, to balance out the result would be appreciated. I am able to post photos of the result.

@number22

A micro cannula is used.

@gmac

1 ) Yes, you can opt for a micro cannula. There will be a few small incisions made in order to make a tiny entry point for the cannula.

2 ) In the glans the risks raised by hoddle10 are higher.
We do not use a micro cannula in the glans. We currently inject a maximum of 2 ml of Juvederm Ultra around the corona using a 27G needle.
Injecting in the glans involves higher risk than injecting under the skin along the penile shaft. Also, sensitivity is decreased which must be pointed out to prospective patients.

The relevant study is here > www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4550597/


@bamcam

Pasted your message into word.
30 ml per year is the limit. Please book in again in December for the glans.

Final point.
Informed that the Androfill video shows the Phalloboards member on his second visit to the clinic. Dr H in the video is injecting through skin into a layer of hyaluronic acid gel placed during the first visit. Injection is under medical lamps allowing blood vessels in the skin to be easily identified. No injection is occurring into the penile shaft tissue, but rather through the skin only.

As the person in the video, and someone who has self injected numerous times i feel that I AM THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO ACTUALLY CAN MAKE A VALID COMMENT.
Injecting is a combination of medical (primary) and aesthethic (secondary) skills.
As YOU WERE NOT THERE i would question your authority to comment on anything about the procedure. The injections are SHALLOW and done with great care. Maybe you cant tell from the video. Frankly i could not give a shit. The Dr knows what he is doing and i know he knows vecause i have plenty of personal experience.

I only acknowledge comments from those who are experienced in the precise procedure shown or who were there. Not people who are working out their own personal mental issues about botched procedured, they have nothing of value to offer me. Or anyone else IMO.
Thx all.

ps i have a nice fat 7 Inch Girth which i am delighted with that all I care about

mischiefmkr wrote: As the person in the video, and someone who has self injected numerous times i feel that I AM THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO ACTUALLY CAN MAKE A VALID COMMENT.
Injecting is a combination of medical (primary) and aesthethic (secondary) skills.
As YOU WERE NOT THERE i would question your authority to comment on anything about the procedure. The injections are SHALLOW and done with great care. Maybe you cant tell from the video. Frankly i could not give a shit. The Dr knows what he is doing and i know he knows vecause i have plenty of personal experience.

I only acknowledge comments from those who are experienced in the precise procedure shown or who were there. Not people who are working out their own personal mental issues about botched procedured, they have nothing of value to offer me. Or anyone else IMO.
Thx all.

ps i have a nice fat 7 inch girth which i am delighted with that all I care about

What a truly bizarre response, especially coming from the guy who posted the following having watched a Dr performing an HA procedure:

\"for sure i am influenced by that terrible youtube video of some italian doctor ramming a cannula up and down under the skin of the patients penis like he was trying to clear a stubborn drain blockage ! although i understand that might not be \'standard procedure\'. i sure hope not.\"

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/ha-...9039&highlight=video

Also if you only acknowledge comments from those who are experienced in the pricise procedure, then why post on an Internet forum?

Androfill posted the video to be critiqued. They said so themselves. Every criticism I made was entirely fair and only a biased person would refute them. If you didn\'t want the video critiqued then you shouldn\'t have agreed to take part in it. You were never personally criticised, so I really don\'t understand your objections to anything I\'ve said. I\'m not gong to be petty and pretend I\'m offended or anything like that, as people on forums so often do. But if I were in your shoes I would apologise.

@hoddle10

Happy to be critiqued. If the criticism is valid, we improve.

Have read back through your posts and you have personally had a rough time of it, I can see where with scepticism comes from. Sometimes criticism is useful, sometimes, while well intended, the criticism is misplaced, or about an issue that doesn\'t deserve that level of attention.

In the case of the micro cannula - you may be a little out of your depth. But it is a moot point as we are happy to use a micro cannula.

It might be deduced from your comments that you have never personally injected filler into anyone yourself?

In the UK either a medical doctor, dentist, nurse, or beauty therapist (aka aesthetic technician) is qualified to perform filler injections. Have you received this training?

2 surgeons and 2 medical doctors (cosmetic injectors) have discussed, at length, injection technique. Yet, you think you know better.

Our patients have included a dentist and a medical doctor, both of whom were cosmetic injectors, and who felt happy with the approach.

On another subject, it is a little alarming that after all the damage that has been done to your own penis, you seem to almost promote PMMA to guys.

Androfill could easily set up in some dodgy jurisdiction in Europe and offer PMMA. We never would, I am sure you know the reasons why. Yet while promoting, or at least being sanguine about PMMA, you focus in on a minuscule risk that you think you have identified with a safe product like HA.

You risk doing more damage than good. These guys read your advice as if you are qualified to give it. They think they might suffer occlusion of the DDV by a Penoplasty surgeon using a tiny 27G needle - which is frankly ridiculous.

If anything you do more damage than good, these chaps read your advice, and instead head off to Moorgate, the Viel Butchers, or any of the other chop-shops in town.

I can understand why the PhalloBoards member is exasperated with your pretence at knowledge. He has first hand experience, and a good result. From my recollection he did not even have bruising after the procedure.

If he had listened to your opinions, he might by now have been approaching us to have PMMA cut out of his penis. We have had 7 enquiries in relation to this, both requesting Removal of the PMMA somehow, and asking if their bad results can be improved using HA.

@mischiefmkr: Hoddle made a legitimate comment on a video. This is what this forum is about. In response you have insulted him on a personal level: \"... people who are working out their own personal mental issues\".You will apologise to Hoddle. Or I will ban you.

@Androfill: self-appointed authority or expertise does not cut it here.A doctor with a collection of PhDs and centuries of certified training can still offer a procedure which is sub-optimal or a hoax even. Please, don\'t play again the expert card (we are the expert while you, Hoddle, aren\'t) and simply stick to facts related to the procedure under discussion.As for PMMA, Hoddle has voiced criticism against it and even exasperation at Dr. Casavantes many times in this forum.

\"It might be deduced from your comments that you have never personally injected filler into anyone yourself?
Have you the training required in the UK for injectables, either a medical doctor, dentist, nurse, or beauty therapist aka aesthetic technician qualified to perform filler injections?
2 surgeons and 2 medical doctors (cosmetic injectors) have discussed, at length, injection technique. Yet, you think you know better\".

I\'ve spent thousands of pounds on consultations with the worlds most reputable Urologist surgeons and I think Hoddle10 knows more about Phalloplasty than all of them put together.

\"If he had listened to your opinions, he might by now have been approaching us to have PMMA cut out of his penis. We have had 7 enquiries in relation to this, both requesting Removal of the PMMA somehow, and asking if their bad results can be improved using HA.\"

I actually think you\'ve completely made this up.

Out of every injectable filler (except HA) PMMA is the least likely to require a full Removal. On this board there is only 1 person who has had PMMA removed out of thousands of people who\'ve had it. Yet there are loads of people who\'ve had other fillers removed.

Androfill wrote: @hoddle10

Happy to be critiqued. If the criticism is valid, we improve.

Have read back through your posts and you have personally had a rough time of it, I can see where with scepticism comes from - I would be very angry. 'Sometimes criticism is useful, sometimes it is misplaced.

In the case of the micro cannula - you may be a little out of your depth. 'But it is a moot point as we are happy to use a micro cannula.

It might be deduced from your comments that you have never personally injected filler into anyone yourself?'

Have you the training required in the UK for injectables, either a medical doctor, dentist, nurse, or beauty therapist aka aesthetic technician qualified to perform filler injections?

2 surgeons and 2 medical doctors (cosmetic injectors) have discussed, at length, injection technique. 'Yet, you think you know better. '

Our patients have included a dentist and a medical doctor, both of whom were cosmetic injectors, and who felt happy with the approach. ' '

On another subject, it is a little alarming that after all the damage that has been done to your own penis, you seem to almost'promote PMMA to guys.

Androfill could easily set up in some dodgy jurisdiction in Europe and offer PMMA. We never would, I am sure you know the reasons why. 'Yet while promoting, or at least being sanguine about PMMA, you focus in on a minuscule risk that you think you have identified with a safe product like HA.'

You risk doing more damage than good. 'These guys read your advice as if you are qualified to give it. 'They think they might suffer occlusion of the DDV by a penoplasty surgeon using a tiny 27G needle - which is frankly ridiculous. '

If anything you do more damage than good, these chaps read your advice, and instead head off to Moorgate, the Viel Butchers, or any of the other chop-shops in town.

I can understand why the Phalloboards member is exasperated with your pretence at knowledge. He has first hand experience, and a good result. 'From my recollection he did not even have bruising after the procedure.

If he had listened to your opinions, he might by now have been approaching us to have PMMA cut out of his penis. 'We have had 7 enquiries in relation to this, both requesting removal of the PMMA somehow, and asking if their bad results can be improved using HA.

My \"pretence at knowledge\". Did I pretend that arterial embolization can occur and lead to necrosis or that this risked can be minimised by using a micro cannula? Did I pretend that with a sharp needle one runs the risk in damaging the dorsal nerve and this unnecessary? Did I use photoshop to create the Carveject image and the screen shot of Dr Horn injecting? Do you think I made a video pretending to be a Dr showing how dermal fillers should be injected to optimise safety? Or is that a real Dr just pretending to have some expertise? Am I making it up when I say that with a micro cannula the injector can release the filler in more consistent streams instread of individual blobs?

From my point of view you don\'t seem prepared to accept reasonable criticism. Every point I\'ve made is more than fair. If you really were committed to improving the service you offer you\'d maybe take these points on board. Ultimately Androfill are responsible for their patients and for the money you charge it\'s not unreasonable for patients to expect you to do everything in your power to ensure their safety. Surely you understand the most attractive part of HA is it\'s safety profile and therefore patients want to know you are doing everything you possibly can to make it as safe as humanly possible. Can you honestly say you are doing that?

No skirting around the question, hand on which do you think is safer out of a micro cannula and a needle?

What is safer retrograde injection or not?

Do you think in the video posted Dr Horn is taking sufficient time to ensure he hasn\'t hit a vessel before injecting and if so why. I can show you several other training videos where the instructors all express the importance of that step.

I don\'t really understand why you\'d have a problem with me highlighting any of those issues given the nature of the forum. Maybe should you start a poll asking whether our members find these kind of critiques valuable. As ultimately wouldn\'t you agree that is far more important that your nose get ting bent out of shape. In fact if you don\'t address any other point in this post, perhaps you\'d do me the courtesy of thinking about that one. Let\'s be honest here, the forum isn\'t here to promote Androfill is it? It\'s here to try and help guys make an as educated decision as possible. So discourse of this nature is entirely necessary isn\'t it?

Also in 6 years of being on the forum I\'ve only ever advised one person to get PMMA and that was SO. I get asked my opinion on what procedures guys should have a daily basis to put that is perspective.

Also, as for being dodgy, well let\'s just wait and see shall we!

@supa
\"As for PMMA, Hoddle has voiced criticism on it and even exasperation with Dr. Casavantes many times in this forum.\"

Statement withdrawn, good to hear hoddle has good judgement in this regard. There should be no reason to get PMMA.
If you can\'t afford '1,500 - '2,000 every 2 years for HA, then there is no way you should be getting PMMA either (because you won\'t have the funds to fix a poor result).

@Reklaw
\"I\'ve spent thousands of pounds on consultations with the worlds most reputable urologist surgeons and I think Hoddle10 knows more about Phalloplasty than all of them put together.\"

Totally agreed, but on the subject of injector technique, even beauty therapists have some level of training in this subject and are qualified to carry out filler injections in the UK.

Penoplasty surgeons with an intimate knowledge of the penis anatomy and 10 years and thousands of cosmetic filler procedures under their belts (in more risky areas in relation to occlusion, intravascular injection) are highly unlikely to cause any damage with a 27G needle going through an almost transparent skin layer under medical lamps. Speaking plainly, you can see the blood vessels quite clearly.

I question whether the doctors you saw were urologists, the AUA does not approve of penis enlargement procedures. But your point is valid, I wouldn\'t defer to certificates in and of themselves either.

I believe there is a guy on this forum buying filler and injecting himself at home. This is clearly not recommended, but honestly speaking - the risk he gets into trouble even in this setting is probably not high.

Although if he does, it could be severe.

Some risks may be less obvious, and more common - infection, filling too much and restricting the ability to draw back and clean under the foreskin, haematoma if a vessel is broken, and others.

What seems strange is the advocacy of a micro cannula in the deeper layers. Occlusion can occur with a micro cannula, there are quite a few major blood lines to weave around in the deeper layers, one can get an idea of the risk by viewing the cross section below. We inject shallow at this point in time.

www.centerforreconstructiveurology.org/n...tion-anatomy_000.jpg