TOPIC: BBC IPLAYER: The penis extension clinic

Here is the Androfill video in full. Clearly it\'s not as safe as using a blunt micro cannula. You don\'t need to be a Dr to work that out. that needle is sharp and numerous injection points are made along the top side of the penis. You can actually see the HA being injected in lumps as the needle is jabbed in from place to place. With the the cannula, which is thin and moves easily under the skin, the HA can come out in a continuous stream and with good technique will ensure a smooth, even outcome.


@Androfill posted the video to be critiqued and that\'s exactly what I\'ve done. I don\'t think optimal safety has been chosen ahead of optimal convenience for the Dr performing the procedure. I\'d personally advise our members to avoid this procedure. That is consistent with what I\'ve been saying about the use of needles for fillers since the inception of Phallobaords.

hello Androfill, i think everyone will be interested to follow the back and forth. also nice one hoddle. PhalloBoards IN EFFECT.

i don\'t want to confuse the timeline but what the hell:

if a cannula is no more difficult than a needle but is also safer, why dont you use a cannulla then? or are you saying that somehow a needle is safer? if yes, why is it safer? and also why do you say that the cannula is larger than a needle; hoddle posted a pic of a smaller cannulla.

also, regarding the difference in depth between yourselves and dr Oates the filler is placed (i.e. filler placed in the penis, not between yourselves and dr Oates) ...does the fact you inject it more shallower mean the result is somehow less? im not talking about the possible aesthetic irregularities you refer to but the actual efficacy of the filler bonding etc etc?

\"The clinic promoting surgery on BBC television in the UK is Moorgate, not Androfill. There is no common ownership or control between these two firms. (Moorgate Clinic has nothing to do with Androfill. Doctors performing the Androfill HA procedure (including the Penoplasty surgeon who appeared on the BBC), are free to provide surgery to any other clinic that they wish to. No patient has been sold surgery by Androfill to date. Androfill site aims to dissuade people from taking unnecessary surgery, steering them towards safer and more effective non-surgical options.\"

Sorry for incorrectly suggesting your clinic Androfill is affiliated with Moorgate.
Don\'t get me wrong I think it\'s brilliant that you offer HA, I just think that it\'s a little off putting that the doctor you use performs unethical procedures in other clinics. Which leads you to beleive he doesn\'t care about the welfare of his patients or that he genulinly believes fat injection is a good technique which suggests he isn\'t a very intelligent doctor.

@number22
Let\'s take an analogy. Having worked on 1,000 carburator cars before has no bearing on the methods of working on a microprocessor controlled injector cars.

The practitioner has to update his knowledge on the \"new\" material he is using, practice to steady his hands and the minute movements needed in depositing the filler under the skin. Experience with FFT, etc. are no longer necessary ...

That doctor did 3 HA procedures on me and i am still really happy with the result. He has his own surgical practice as well as through a couple of clinics. Thats fairly standard \'consultant\' business model. He knows what he\'s doing in my ecperience and having talkied with him at length.
Having said that, sticking a bit of HA in a penis is a lot easier, more accurate and more controllable than fat transfer. I tend to prefer a proper surgeon who knows the anatomy well, what\'s going on under the skin etc, over a non surgically trained injector. Although an injector with years of experience, that i would be happy with too if i am honest. I think experience of the specific procedure and material being used is the key criterion for me.
For sure injecting HA on an Erect penis is also a significant improvement aesthetic wise.
I\'ve had one procedure done with the cannula and neither me nor the Dr were that happy with it. Its just less accurate, more invasive and i didnt much like the \'rooting around\' under the skin with it. It was a bit like trying to ice a cake using a hose pipe...
I asked him to switch back to the needle half way through. But if someone without proper surgical training was wanting to stick needles in repeatedly, without knowledge of what and where to avoid, then i wouldn\'t be keen on that at all.

Avoid fillers in the penis unless the Dr performing the procedures has the s to use a micro cannula.

Thanks hoddle, that\'s what I meant by \"perfecting the techniques (currently) available\" ...

Androfill wrote: [Caverject (Erect) is a great idea.
It is interesting to see that men can self-inject Caverject into their penis at home without supervision - with a needle the same size as Juvederm supplied 27G.

Needle is'preferred'over the cannula, when there is a good reason to change we will.>

So a good reason to change is arterial embolization. If you use a sharp needle you can potentially'inject a thick gel into a vessel which can block blood supply and cause Necrosis. The risk is small but we are talking about the penis here. Any fool can inject the penis with HA using a needle. It\'s easy. There is a reason someone like Dr Oates has taken time to perfect a technique using the micro cannula and it\'s patient safety. Also it should give a better result as the needle has to come in and out all the time, whilst the cannula doesn\'t.

The comparison with Carverject is a poor one, as Carverject isn\'t a thick gel and the idea is to inject directly into the corpus cavernosum. With HA care must be taken not to inject into the CC, hence a blunt cannula is superior. Also, patients are clearly shown how to inject Carverject safely by their Dr and they also have an online tutorial on the Carverject website. In that tutorial they are clearly shown where to inject and where not to inject. One of the key areas not to inject is the top side of th penis above the dorsal nerve and where the blood vessels are. Look at this screen shot:

Now here is a screen shot (posted below) taken from the video on Androfills website. Dr Horn makes numerous injections in the exact area where you wouldn\'t want to risk a sharp needle (see the screen shot posted above). Though the risk is small, surely that alone is enough for you reconsider your position. I understand you are just trying to make a living and don\'t have a problem with that. But there are so many other Dr\'s out there you could approach to work with. As I said previously we need a UK version of Dr Oates. Any old nurse with filler training could inject th penis with a needle, but the micro cannula technique takes more s and experience. In my opinion you should find a Dr who is experienced with the use of micro cannulas.

mischiefmkr wrote: I tend to prefer a proper surgeon who knows the anatomy well, what\'s going on under the skin etc, over a non surgically trained injector.

Why does surgical training impress you when it comes to non surgical procedures? Here is an example of surgery performed by your Dr and honestly I don\'t see why it inspires confidence. Look at the scarring at the base. To me if a Dr is happy to do that type of procedure I don\'t know why you would trust his judgement. You might think I\'m being harsh but it\'s hard to argue that given PE vets have been arguing against the use of V/Y incisions for close to 2 decades and the reason for it is what is visible in the photo. Why would a Dr still be doing that in this day and age?

At the end of the day Dr Elist has surgical training and knows the anatomy of the one is very well. But would you want him injecting you?

mischiefmkr wrote: I\'ve had one procedure done with the cannula and neither me nor the Dr were that happy with it. Its just less accurate, more invasive and i didnt much like the \'rooting around\' under the skin with it. It was a bit like trying to ice a cake using a hose pipe... I asked him to switch back to the needle half way through. But if someone without proper surgical training was wanting to stick needles in repeatedly, without knowledge of what and where to avoid, then i wouldn\'t be keen on that at all.

It doesn\'t sound like a micro cannula or proper technique was applied. Using a micro cannula is nothing like \"trying to ice a cake with a hose.\" That could be a good description of what you saw in the video of the Italian Dr\'s where they used a big cannula and squirted in a ton of Macrolane and tried to mold it into shape. But the type of micro cannula used to inject Juverderm should be thin, like a needle. I think'a 27g cannula (photo below) can be used for Voluma. A small entry hole is made with a needle, it\'s left in the skin for about 30 seconds and then taken out and the blunt cannula is then inserted through the hole made by the needle. The cannula is so thin that it glides easily under the skin and therefore the HA can be injected in continuous streams, unlike the \"in out\" jabbing technique we see in Dr Horns video. So the result with the cannula should be superior to a needle, it just requires more s and experience.'

Below is a photo'of the type of cannula I\'m talking about. It\'s blunt and'thin'so can be painlessly'moved under the skin and theoretically should make injecting into blood vessels or damaging the dorsal nerve close to impossible. It\'s just a safer and superior way to inject and in my opinion no one should risk having a filler in their penis without it being administered via a micro cannula.

Does Dr. Gitt in Arizona use a micro cannula when he injects voluma?

What is the difference between fat transfer/fat grafting and fat transfer done with stem cells/prp?

I thought with stem cells has its positive merits

No expert but

Fat transfer, they just suck some fat out your gut and whack it in your Cock.

Fat grafts, very different, it\'s essentially sliced off your arse and grafted onto the Cock, it leaves HORRIBLE scares on your backside .

No idea what stem cell fat transfer is.

It\'s just a safer and superior way to inject and in my opinion ....


@ Hoddle10

A few points.

- Using a cannula is no more difficult than using a needle for cosmetic surgeons with over 20 years experience.

- A micro cannula can be used at Androfill, if the patient does not like the idea of a needle, however the cannula is larger (longer) than a needle. Incisions are needed for cannula entry, bruising and swelling are greater.

You might be missing one piece of information.

The Australian doctor, who we are in communication with, injects much deeper we believe; above the Buck\'s, below the Dartos.

There is a good reason that he does this, the filler is deeper, so any lumps are better hidden, and there is probably less migration of filler to the Foreskin region (and associated need to dissolve any stray filler, which can be an inconvienience).

Both surgeons we use have extensive experience in open surgery on the penis, and are intimately aware of the anatomy, not from text books, but from performing surgery on the open penis.

Both surgeons were asked whether they were comfortable injecting HA at a deeper level in the penis, and both refused to do this.

The reason given when asked, separately, was that is it too risky to do so, they would be working blind with the micro cannula, unless they made significant incisions in order to see clearly what they were doing (which would defeat the idea of being non-surgical).

Neither Androfill surgeon will risk it. It may be that Dr O. has a safe method, if his method is better we will adopt it.

- We are the only clinic to have put a close up video of our procedure in high definition on the internet, to be critiqued.

The worst complication we have seen in over 300 procedures is filler migration to the Foreskin, which is easily dissolved using Hyalase.

It is probably fair to say that, aside from Dr Kim in Korea, we are the most experienced in performing PE procedures using HA.

- We invite other HA PE surgeons to post close up videos of their procedures, so we can advance the procedure, get it absolutely perfect, and prevent unnecessary surgery.

- Dr O. is a general cosmetic surgeon, and deserves respect for delving into an area of surgery unrelated to his usual practice. We are in communication with him about his technique, and when we are convinced that it can be carried out safely, we will adopt it.

We all have the same goal, providing the best result, with the minimum of risk.

When Dr O. publishes his video and explains what he is doing injecting at this level we will be able to objectively determine whether this is a better procedure, or not.