PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement

Thank you very much. I don't really engage in sexual activity anymore so this is more of a hobby to me and I'm willing to face those risks. I am planning on doing ligamentolysis, these 2 procedures, and then fillers after. Obviously this will be over the course of a few years for the money, but this is my plan so far.

After completing 3 months post-implant surgery..it was finally time to work on some more girth. Goal is to reach 6 inches girthwise.

Today met Dr.Seit in Toronto.Very professional and nice clinic.Rejuuv Medi Spa is located in Yonge Street, they have a second location too.
He has already done HA fillers on guys with implants, so that was a relief.Revanesse was the HA filler used.

The nurse provided me the numbing cream and disposable underwear, and waited for the cream to do its job. Dr.Seit uses a blunt canula ..just one needle hole on the skin and the rest is manipulating the canula. I saw the whole process all along since was in an upright position. Very open and candid conversations during the process.

Before starting Dr.Seit was a bit skeptical of my earlier fillers might make it difficult to inject if fibrosis is encountered. Luckily he didn't have any issues and managed to inject 6 syringes of Revanse( 1.2 ml each) into the shaft only. Mostly the top part since the implant has made it flatter. Also corrected minor dents I have.


He will see me in 2 weeks just to make sure things are ok.

Will post pictures once the swelling goes down...to get accurate girth data.

(1.) How much girth/circumference can you achieve with girth enhancement injections?
Depends on how much fillers we use. The objective is to enhance penile circumference by one inch, typically achievable with the appropriate amount of filler.


(2.) How does a newly girth enhanced penis feel?
It feels soft and natural.


(3.) How does the P-Long compare with Injectable Girth Enhancement? What are the pros & cons of each?
P-Long uses your body’s own natural cells and growth factors to stimulate an increase in size, along with the penile traction device and oral supplements. Injectable Girth Enhancement uses an injectable filler to give an immediate increase to the girth of the penis.

There are several advantages to opting for the P-Long treatment. Firstly, it utilizes plasma extracted directly from your own body, making it the most natural option available. Additionally, this treatment is specifically designed to enhance both the length and girth of the penis. This treatment can take 2-12 weeks for the patient to see results.

On the other hand, Injectable Girth Enhancement offers the advantage of the results being immediately visible. This procedure primarily emphasizes girth size, producing a more significant increase in girth compared to other treatments.

Both procedures are relatively well-tolerated and can typically be completed in approximately 30-45 minutes.

almond123 wrote: What’s the best option in this case?

Probably Dermal Graft Surgery (like Alloderm or Surgimend, although last I heard Surgimend has been recalled and no timetable yet on its availability; that said, Alloderm is equally serviceable in this regard). This involves de-gloving the penis and wrapping a dermal graft matrix (kind of like a tissue scaffold) around the shaft. Assuming you don't stack too many "sheets" of these grafts, your penis will eventually integrate the new tissue with vascularization so that it can survive long-term (if not permanently) as an implant. Unlike silicone implants, this material is actual cadaver and so it will behave more like a penis than something rigid. Also far less likely to have aesthetic irregularities common with fillers (e.g. nodules, ridges, and asymmetry) because these grafts are tailored/cut to accommodate your shape & size.

Dr. Liu of the Bay Area and LA is a Plastic Surgeon who offers this procedure and has a few recent patient reports on the forums.

Dr. Solomon of LA is also a Plastic Surgeon who offers this procedure. Note*- he also has a Philadelphia (East Coast) location but he is in the process of relocating, so you'll have to contact them directly for up-to-date information.

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As for fillers, this may be controversial for some with sensitivities to circumcision practices, but I simply don't think permanent fillers are ideal for uncircumcised men. The only permanent filler I'd recommend (period) is PMMA, and I personally wouldn't recommend it for the uncut demographic.

Is it possible to undergo a successful procedure with both excellent natural aesthetics as well as big gains as an uncircumcised man? Yes, but the frequency (odds) of incurring aesthetic irregularities goes up dramatically. The three longest running Sponsor Clinics on this site (which indicates a sufficient sample size of patients) have confirmed this reality. Two of those three Sponsors strongly recommend circumcision prior to filler injections (or otherwise require you to sign a waiver), with the remaining 3rd Clinic refusing to perform work on uncut men period.

There are Sponsors (and Non-Sponsors) who will perform this procedure for uncircumcised men, but in the U.S., varying stats suggest as much as 80%+ of the male population are circumcised. This implies that Clinics that do less penis volume (whether because they are new on the scene, or because it's just one of many procedures they offer) are less likely to take into consideration the potential aesthetic irregularities presented by men with foreskin.

There is even a term called the "accordion effect" in which the filler can create that sort of description.

If you want to get a filler as an uncircumcised man, my recommendation would be to either:

• Get an adult Circumcision ( Pollock Clinics are Reputable for Adult Circumcisions ). Be sure to ask the Doctor/Clinic who will be injecting you what they recommend in terms of the type of circumcision (high, low, loose, tight).
• Assume the risks ahead and look into small volume injections, which you can build slowly over time. This can be costly over time, but at least you can reduce the risk of aesthetic irregularities associated with fillers & uncircumcised men

And while I know you stated permanent in your topic title, you could also look into Hyaluronic Acid (HA). Due to HA's temporary nature (18-24 months per some estimates) which requires top-offs periodically, it may be a great way to see how your penile dermis (skin) takes and accommodates dermal fillers in general. HA is not only temporary but reversible to some extent (especially if it is in low volume and the dissolving of HA is done relatively soon after the procedure). You may even end up liking HA and sticking to it to avoid the pitfalls of being stuck with a permanent, yet undesirable outcome.

Just remember folks, permanent options (be it PMMA or Dermal Grafts) are not readily reversible, and can be rather invasive should the need arise (albeit very uncommon). Temporary options are definitely more easy to manage when it comes to both aesthetics & complications, but the trade-off is that you'll have to occasionally visit the Clinic to top it off (like visiting the gas station to make sure your tire air pressures are optimal).

Hope that helps!

justn8 wrote: Good for you! Hope it goes well!

Sort of related. Why are some so against adding PMMA when there is HA there? Meanwhile there's other practitioners who deliberately use both. I'm just trying to understand the rationale in both directions. I do understand Avanti wanting a clean slate. But... if they're compatible... What's the issue when others deliberately do it?

I'll be happy to explain because I'm privy to some of the policies and sentiments of these Doctors & Clinics. The use of different kinds of fillers on the same day (or subsequent appointments) aren't the issue. I've seen some interesting & innovative techniques, including Fat + PMMA among others (some which will hit the forum in the near future).

What first must be understood is that penile injectable phalloplasty is neither standardized, nor are all results created equal among all the providers out there. Some could argue that male phalloplasty in general remains experimental. Some are great at it, and some aren't. For this reason, there is a higher risk taking on a patient that had prior penile work done from another Doctor/Clinic.

Think of this example--> a guy comes in with silicone oil injected but wants PMMA (which Avanti wouldn't normally do). Suppose however, hypothetically, Avanti Derma agreed and injects the patient with 15 cc's of PMMA. Months later the patient is experiencing symptoms and complications, and assumes it has to be the PMMA because it was the last procedure he had performed. The reality is that silicone oil can take months or years for complications to manifest, and it can become extremely difficult to determine who or what is responsible for the patient's situation.

Some Clinics don't want to deal with that liability, negative press, or no-cost revision/repair for something that wasn't their fault to begin with. In other words, if you have had prior penis enhancement work done on your penis with a separate Clinic, some (not all) alternative Medical Practices will turn you down, especially if it involves Doctors they aren't familiar with (or feel good about).

In summary, it isn't the combination of fillers that is regarded as problematic (I don't believe it is), it's the responsibility of taking on a new patient who could already be compromised by inferior work from a less experienced, less ethical, and/or less skilled practitioner, jeopardizing their own brand along the way. This is elective aesthetic medicine after all, you're far more under the magnifying glass than those who work traditional medicine (in terms of online popularity).

I'm not suggesting that HA (and subsequent dissolving) will disqualify anyone from receiving injections with Avanti Derma, but I can promise you they won't be thrilled if someone kept that information from them (and they'll know either way once their cannula is under the skin). It is imperative patients share with their Doctor any prior phalloplasty performed, both for their penile health & the success of their procedure(s). Obviously consult first before booking an appointment.

I hope that shares some insight.

Aviator1117 wrote: Even my Urologist was impressed with the girth when he inflated me on follow-up:cheer: . Then I reminded him of the filler..he was showing my dick to his junior intern doctors.

Though early days but I agree the fillers girth and visual fullness along with the implants rigidity is a deadly combo.
I am taking daily Cilais along with VED to increase glans blood flow. My surgeon has cleared using a silicone ring if I want to. Goal is to trap as much blood as possible in both shaft and glans.

Which implant model did you get?

Just curious if you have any concealment issues with implant + filler since the implant makes us showers to begin with. I have 26cm titan and sometimes it looks like I have cock supreme going on in my pants if I dont wear the right boxerbriefs or angle it right in the pants.

Also for any guys curious about implants - while i love mine, i advise not considering this route unless its a last resort. There are some quality of life things you have to give up, and the surgery is expensive if you are paying out of pocket. I had severe peyronie's and venous leak, and it was the only thing that could give me an erection.

One of the reasons fillers are (seemingly) great for implanted guys is because the implant can often be oval in shape. Although women haven't cared at all, the filler can give you the roundness back. Also, the implants have maximum girth. So guys who had large natural girth pre-implant can use the filler to get back to their natural (or beyond) girth. I think fillers are a great compliment to implants if done correctly.

If cialis/fillers gets the job done for you now, definitely keep on the route.

Dream wrote: Thanks, very interesting!

- Oh, what about implants and length loss? How much did you lose?
- I guess implant increases girth? (How much?)
- I am bad with erection, but viagra works very good.. i kinda was thinking about implant.. my erection angle is low also (slightly under 90degrees) - ok, now i see that implant does not improve but worsen erection angle (cause of weight i guess)

I don't think you will have problem entering.. i think shane diesel also always has to carry his cock, hardly having an erection angle

Hi Dream

There is no fixed formula for length loss immediately after surgery and as explained in my post most men recover the length.There are some members in the other forum who have used VED extensively and report increase in length after months of daily inflation and VED protocol.
Also, girth increase is not the goal of a penile implant.Due to fillers, I noticed that as a side effect.

If you are seeing ED signs maybe you see an Urologist first who specializes on ED and implant surgery.

Even my Urologist was impressed with the girth when he inflated me on follow-up:cheer: . Then I reminded him of the filler..he was showing my dick to his junior intern doctors.

Though early days but I agree the fillers girth and visual fullness along with the implants rigidity is a deadly combo.
I am taking daily Cilais along with VED to increase glans blood flow. My surgeon has cleared using a silicone ring if I want to. Goal is to trap as much blood as possible in both shaft and glans.

Screen2584 wrote:

6x5to6x7 wrote:

Lnpleaeu wrote: Thank you both so much for the detailed answers. I have put in the request for the consultation and the office has not been reaching out to me yet. I might try to call then tomorrow on my day off. I also have put in a request for 2 weeks off. I also have 2 days off in a row weekly so i can always flight back to remove the stitches. I have an office job so hopefully if I have to wear a hanging or stretching device, it would not be too visible nor too complicated to remove to go pee and put it back on easily. The recovery of 6 to 8 months is a a bit frustrating but I guess everything comes with a price. Idk if I read it here or somewhere else that filler or fat injection is kinda squishy and when you are having sex, the filler can be pushed to the base and kinda stick outside. Having the surgery with Surgimend, do you guys have the same problem? Or it would be more natural looking, feeling, and functional. Sorry if the question is too personal. Perhaps, Dr. Liu will explain it better.

Again, thank you so much for the detailed responding!

Hey brother. Just wanted to offer up my experience with PMMA. I have a thread going you can read. I’m only chiming in because you stated fillers look fake or maybe bunch up with sexy and might feel squishy, etc. I can’t speak for all fillers and some of that might be true. I can speak to the PMMA filler treatment I had done in December by Avanti Derma. It’s not squishy, does not feel fake, when I’m erect my dick is rock hard, my veins are already back. My dick is very natural looking and feeling. I actually am going in for round 2 next month because the results of round 1 were so great. I’m extremely happy and so is my wife. You’re recommended to not have sex for at least two weeks, but I had sex on day 6. I’m not recommending that, but I’m just saying…. I have as good or better results without having to go under the knife and endure a 6-9 month healing process. To each their own, but my goal was to achieve the safest, least invasive process with the best results. Hit me up if you have any questions. I just cringe at the thought of surgery when Avanti offers such a great result without surgery. All that said, I agree that the procedure I had done probably won’t help you with erect length.

If someone is considering permanent filler, then I think having a dermal graft is a good choice, because if something goes wrong with the filler it has to go out through surgery anyhow.

Besides, having a dermal graft is likely to give better results. You will not have to remove it because the result was bad, but rather in the rare case there is some complications.

Honestly though, I am a bit concerned how these dermal grafts do long-term, for example 10-20 years. If there are some complications, it has to be removed through surgery.

Even though dermal grafts have been done for nearly 3 decades, it is hard to say whether they are really permanent. However, I guess the same can be said for PMMA. Who knows if the filler might have to be removed for some reason?

Second, like you wrote, surgery should not be underestimated. You have to be strong mentally to cope with it, because it is your penis, but PMMA is also permanent and for that reason any complications might be devastating.

OP wrote that he had some temporary penile retraction, which is common, but it is enough to really freak someone out who is not so strong mentally. I believe that I had some penile retraction too after the surgery, and it gave me a lot of anxiety.

My point is: I believe it is a much better idea to start with HA, and if someone feels that they want to up their game, they can consider surgery or PMMA later. In my opinion, first-timers should not be encouraged to get surgery or permanent fillers. Androfill wrote it recently on the forum that they strongly discourage first-timers from having Ellanse.

Finally, I want to say that Dr. Liu has a treasure trove of information on his website. I wish another Q&A could be done with him.

Well said but to put everyone's mind to rest, both pmma / HA/ Ellansé and surgical methods like Alloderm / Surgimend and Megaderm can all give you great results as long as you go to a reputable and competent clinic/practitioner. And here meaning, "Phalloboards" you can get the launch pad for your best options and base your selections on your location, type of enhancement, budget and your expectations.


Fillers can offer you great results with much less down time from healing up and back into sex. But some people like my self opted for surgery, in my case because I wanted to keep things as biocompatible+permenant as possible and also I am not looking for ridiculous size gains. With fillers I have seen what some people can achieve and its pretty nuts, but its their choice. I personally didnt wan't to get addicted to being a "SIZE KING" Surgical methods tend to take long to heal but they also satiate that tendency to go back for "More and More".

But yeah waiting to heal is definitely not a perk, but it sure is a good breaking system for protecting you from your self basically a reality check if you will that just a "little bit more" might not always be the answer. I will say this... I have seen many GREAT journeys on this website with very happy ending and results and really good for them! And some guys that had really awesome results with fillers but just didn't stop while they were ahead... and went from amazing looking cocks with really nice girth and great esthetics to the absurd and abnormal. Try not to be that guy. Honestly no woman NEEDS a 7 inch girth cock. It is just my opinion obviously but having a 6 -6.4 inch cock puts you in that 1% group for a reason. It is a very high achievement... just some really rough math's but if the world population is 7 billion... and you have 6 inch girth puts you in the 1%...that means 70 million and now divide that by 2 because lets say half the world is women (its more btw) you are 1 of 35million men on this planet with that girth....and to be quite honest your more like 1 in 20 million or so once you include other factors. Its enough....

At the end of the day the grass will always be greener for various reasons for various people.

Main thing is to think long and hard before going through with something, spending too much time worrying "after the fact" and regretting things you do in life sucks right? It is very important to put logical limitations on everything you do otherwise you will be going in reverse/zig zags your whole life in fog with out lights and that is not a fun place to be.

Captain wrote: No sir. I live in the Northeast US. And I mentioned the hectic schedule only because finding time to do a top off every year may be difficult. Luckily, I’ll be off work this year from October to December. I haven’t had more than a week off in 2 years. So I plan on using this time off for myself.

I guess I’m really looking to hear from any members who also had shrinkage issues that for either procedure done and how their shrinkage is afterwards and if it caused poor results.

Oh well if you are in the Northeast, why even bother traveling to Australia (where Dr. Oates operates)? North American Directory Listing has a variety of options to consider without having to travel/budget too far. .

As for procedures like Alloderm, they've come a long way.

Firstly, infections are a byproduct complication of surgery, in other words, a percentage of elective surgery runs the risk of an infection (this is true for breast enlargement and so on). Typically uncommon when all the necessary clinical steps are taken, and often can be managed/resolved with antibiotics. Infections can, however, end up being a serious complication this is why these are called elective procedures, they aren't without risk. Heck, even dermal injectable fillers run the risk of infection, albeit quite low.

As for shrinkage. This was common with the older methods employed with graft surgeries. The modern approach (taken by the likes of Dr. Liu and Dr. Solomon) is to limit how much graft is implanted in order to ensure the tissue implant integrates and vascularizes with the penile shaft. The aforementioned shrinkage was due to having over-filled the penis with the graft implant (example: too many "sheets" of Alloderm or Surgimend wrapped around the penis), proving to be too much to adequately integrate & vascularize, leading to the failure of some of the graft implant, giving the appearance of shrinkage or girth contraction.

The modern approach alleviates this likelihood, and the risk of infection is inherent in all surgery that exposes your insides (i.e. a de-gloved penis) for a period of time, and can often be prevented or treated with antibiotics. The risk of infection isn't related to the Alloderm graft itself.

Dr. Solomon performs these procedures and has an Office in Philadelphia however I believe they are relocating to the West Coast and you would have to contact them to see if they are still taking appointments on the East Coast. Dr. Liu also performs this procedure is in California (currently Bay Area but may relocate to Los Angeles).

Otherwise, with the Directory Listing I linked above, there are a multitude of other options and Clinics to consider as well. Good luck!

EricPig wrote: Having FDA approval for a filler that you patented is a smart move for multiple reasons. I’m only addressing the point that you made that it’s “illegal”. Because you speak with certainty but… you don’t. I’m just trying to make you see that what your issue is a feeling. It’s not fact. Which again. You’re entitled to. But the accusations against Loria are unsubstantiated. You don’t have to go to him nor like him. But you can’t say things like “he’s injecting illegally” and have your members read that and take your word for it. That’s false.
He also does state that is what he is injecting. That’s well known in the office and website. But tell you what. Next time I go I’ll have them show me the vials lol. Which is something I know doesn’t happen at any of these other companies. But… I’ll do that to quiet this.

Ellanse is a unique compound dermal filler that is not FDA approved. For this reason, its use would be an issue of legality, since it would NOT be permissible to use within the United States. Loria's Mystery Cocktail is also a unique compound dermal filler that is not FDA approved. For this reason, its use would be an issue of legality, since it would NOT be permissible to use within the United States. Comprendes?

Do you know why the FDA regulates these fillers? To ensure they meet an acceptable risk threshold and are intended to provide positive benefits to the American patient/consumer. This is to test the efficacy of medical drugs and devices, which means Loria's Mystery Cocktail at BEST is unethical in its use(s), if not outright illegal.

Also, I made clear numerous times that I couldn't prove he was injecting illegally, but that I was suspicious of it based on the information available (and elaborated on why). I did so clearly multiple times and here you are saying otherwise. Please READ.

Call up any Cosmetic Clinic and ask them to read off their menu of fillers & other injectables. You'll hear Juvaderm, Bellafill, Botox, and so on. Not once are you going to hear, "and our In-House Specialty volume enhancer," like EVER. If they have Silikon1000, they'll inject you with just that. I mean again, nothing about this Loria smells right.

Also are you telling me that he uses Silikon1000 (a brand-name) as a core ingredient in his patent, as well as the same ingredient that will be submitted to the FDA for approval? I'd be curious to see if Silikon1000 could sue in this instance, but the legality of this matter is admittedly above my pay-grade. Like if the perfect "mixture" constituted a high enough percentage of Silikon1000 so that it's effectively "Silikon1000-Lite", wouldn't this amount to some kind of infringement? Interesting to see where that goes (if it goes anywhere at all).

You got duped by a "sleazy used car salesman" of a Doctor (no disrespect to any actual used car salesmen reading this lol) and you rather not swallow the pill. Every response you make falls flat on its face. You're not doing yourself or the Loria "brand" any justice to be frank, quit while you're ahead please. You claim you don't want to argue, but choose to anyways, all while making points that were previously refuted or addressed. Don't let this "ICU Nurse" thing get to your head buddy.

And I was going to wait until later to publish this piece on the frontpage, but since I did mention lymphatics in a previous post, check out this article with a Urological insight on penile injections as well as a case follow-up on a penile & testicular silicone enhancement -- FRESH OFF THE PRESSES:


Effectiveness of Silicone Injections for Penile Enlargements

EricPig wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote: First and foremost, my proclamations on the matter come from a multitude of respected physicians with considerably more authority on the subject, so this is not simply my own assumptions.

Secondly, Dr. Loria is a career liar. You have no idea how many times he changed up his vocabulary with respect to his filler and how quickly he'd change subjects. I've joined in on calls, and I've had members join in on conference calls, and he would just toss around gibberish assuming us (the "ignorant") would take his word for it. He would even throw around terms like "PMMA" and "Collagen production" and wouldn't even mention silicone at first. He's so evasive in fact, that there is a former patient on a separate PE forum who shared a story when in the hospital for his penis condition, that Loria refused to give the physicians information on what was injected. Can you believe that? This patient facing infection that could lead to sepsis, and Loria didn't have even the morality to do the right thing for his own patient because he's clearly got something to hide. I really try my hardest to refrain from name-calling as it is not befitting of an Administrator of a site discussing serious topics, but that was such a scumbag move on Loria's part and tells me everything I need to know about who he really is.

When I brought up him using the term "Cosmetic Surgeon," it wasn't meant to say that you need to be a surgeon to perform these procedures, it was to say he was lying about his medical background because he's in-fact NOT a surgeon in any capacity.

Yes, I received an email from his marketing rep, not himself obviously. He's too proud and stubborn to ever make the first move. I've defended Sponsors and Non-Sponsors alike. I'm open to new Sponsors. Ask yourself why I won't accept Loria? Why not take his money? Ask yourself why the vast majority of penis enlargement doctors don't include silicone oil as a filler option when they can use Silikon100 off-label? Do you really truly believe this Hair Restoration "specialist" has figured out what career-accomplished surgeons and urologists haven't?

Having followed the scene since 2005 and learned the nuances of the penis and these procedures from the Doctors themselves sort of actually does amount to the same kind of "credits" you'd need to earn to have some above-average understanding of the topic matter -- more so than a random "nurse" I'd contend. I've spent countless hours reading not only posts, but private messages, emails, and other modes of communication for well over a decade with both patients and Doctors (some of which were non-Sponsors). I've studied sexual medicine to the extent that I have a good understanding of anatomy and some of the physiologies involved, especially as it pertains to penis enlargement. Sure, I'm not a medical professional, but I do see myself as the most qualified Patient Educator there is (on matters of penis enlargement). Either way, my claims are made on the information provided to me by those who are in the know, and many of them.

Clearly your schooling has not made you any smarter on making good decisions in this respect, and I'm afraid not even a Doctorate will solve your inability to see the patterns of deception -- but I get it, the last thing you want to think about is having a ticking timebomb in your penis, so you have to double down on defending your poorly made decision by reassuring yourself that because you've had some medical training, that you're incapable of being scammed. You know, no one likes being scammed, it's a tough pill to swallow as a grown adult. Besides, an ICU Nurse? I seldom "LOL" on this forum but I know a few personally (ICU in fact), and I assure you they wouldn't have a damn clue about the nuances of penis enlargement, so kick rocks with that nonsense please.

Dr. Elist has been performing his botcheries circa 2009, and we all know how terrible his procedure is. Dr. Loria's patient count doesn't give him any points, all it tells me is that he's a sociopath for cash.

Yes, many of the Doctors I know of actually show the box, or at the very least, will have the box and serial number sticker per request.

You do realize that until he has FDA clearance, he's injecting you illegally, right?

Do you actually believe he changes the ratios of his filler ingredients per patient on the day of the procedure? Right there and then in his lab by just examining your penis? I mean that seems rather tedious, inefficient, and costly. Did you have to wait a while before he came into the room with the syringes? Seems bizarre if you ask me. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager a pretty penny he has a set ratio premade ready to go, largely that of silicone oil that is imported illegally in order to give him absurd profit margins. Last I checked, Silikon1000 was the 2nd most expensive filler, only behind Bellafill (PMMA), and looking at some price lists right now, may have exceeded that of Bellafill. To pump the kind of volumes you require with this type of filler (60cc's +) and keep his pricing market-competitive, I'm having a hard time believing he's using anything legally. But you just haven't asked yourself those kind of questions, have you? I'm trying to do you a favor here, if you can only see it.

What you ultimately fail to see is that this site promotes the efficacious methods of phalloplasty based on its history, the science/medicine behind it, and patient feedback. The PhalloBoards is the only site, community, and validated source (via physician education & endorsement) that has followed this niche topic, and has done so for 13 years. It isn't bias, it's reality. If it were bias, why would I provide my readership with different options like Alloderm, Surgimend, Ellanse, Hyaluronic Acid, Radiesse, PMMA (Bellafill AND Linnea Safe), Renuva, Fat Transfer, and so on? PRP and exosomes? Different regions, states, different countries? Do you think some of my Sponsors were thrilled that P-Long came along? Well, it was an alternative to phalloplasty for guys who like to do PE exercises. By encouraging healthy competition, I play a role in lowering market costs and incentivizing innovation among the leaders in phalloplasty. I have weekly/monthly calls and can't wait for them to share some advances made that I'm not at liberty to speak of at present time (because they need to be fully tested). I'm clearly taking the sides of methods I know don't possess unacceptable levels of risk based on a knowledge that you simply do not have -- if that's bias, fine, I'll concede that much. And yes, all elective procedures are not without risk, but there is a line that when crossed, becomes unacceptable.

If this wasn't an open free flow of information, wouldn't I have simply deleted your posts and banned you? If you want to continue insulting this forum and its community, then you can go take a hike. We've been very receptive to your experience(s), but I've stated on innumerable occasions that this site is a No-Silicone-Zone, and so whenever the procedure itself is promoted or recommended, I've made it a forum policy to provide the necessary information to many newcomers who are simply unaware. If hypothetically PMMA (known to be non-carcinogenic) were to somehow have a 100% direct causality with cancer, not only would most ethical Doctors discontinue its use, but those who choose not to would be admonished and black-listed.

I've seen enough emails of Loria patients begging for assistance, and Doctors telling me the nightmares they've seen fixing his garbage-excuse for work. This is also true for the Penuma (Elist implant). However, I just don't get that level of scary reporting from the aforementioned procedures I support (like HA and PMMA and so on). Those mostly deal with aesthetic issues that never impact the health and/or function of the penis.

Oof, the kind of skin grafts required to fix a Loria procedure gone wrong, or the severity of late stage granulomas with something so synthetic, or migration into other parts of the body... I know of a forum veteran who I won't mention that is experiencing illness that may be related to silicone oil according to some back-channel sources, if I get confirmation that the diagnosis is confirmed (or get him willing to acknowledge it here), I will.

Lastly, you told me you didn't want to argue, and I made clear my post was a PSA in response to what may have been an intentional or unintentional promotion of this procedure (citing patents give people the impression of legitimacy), and it wasn't necessarily to argue with you. I also asked in my last post that we carry on, because as you said yourself, you wish not to argue. Everything I've said has been factual, honest, and informed. The only thing I said that I can't prove (but believe the evidence is strongly in favor of) is my belief that he sources/imports silicone illegally because there is no way he's charging those prices for the amount of volume being injected, even in bulk. Everything else were facts, plain and simple.

Based on your insistence that there are no more arguments, I am politely asking everyone please resume the topic at hand.

I agree with you to move on. I don’t really care to address many of the above comments since it will just keep this discussion going. However I do want to be clear that use of medications off label (the use of drugs outside the approved FDA intention) is in fact legal. Also to that point as the below link will highlight- doctors are not required to tell patients if the medications they are prescribing are being done in an “off label” manner. However Loria does.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/inf...on-medications/2012-

07#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20many%20physicians%20prescribe,of%20informed%20consent%20is%20introduced.

www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/off...hat-you-need-to-know

I understand that to those who are not medical this might come as a shock but I just wanted to clear that up that it is not illegal. So please make sure your sticking to your word when you profess to be educated on these matters and putting down healthcare workers and their educations when it’s us who care for you and your loved ones.

I also wanna comment that I don’t think you’re a bad dude. I appreciate that you care and take a strong stance in your opinion. I do believe you truly dislike Loria and his practice and want to convince guys to avoid him. I completely disagree with your view but you’re entitled to feel how you do.
I encourage everyone to not take your word nor my word and to do their own research and speak to patients from all companies to get their experiences.

No one once disputed the use of dermal fillers off-label as being legal or illegal. Every Sponsor, like most cosmetic doctors & surgeons, use fillers off-label and the FDA is well aware and typically don't intervene. Many medications are prescribed off-label all the time. No one here is shocked, it's common knowledge and It doesn't take an ICU Nurse to know this... not only does this make you sound embarrassingly pretentious, but makes me believe you didn't bother to read a word I typed, and yet still had the audacity to reply with something that was never being argued in the first place.

My point overall was NOT about off-label use, but rather my suspicion that he's acquired (i.e. imported) non-FDA approved silicone oil, which would then make it a matter of legality. You would have known this if you read what I typed, but again, I feel like you're selectively ignoring details in my posts for whatever reason(??). The amount of volume he injects (60cc's-100cc's +) using Silikon1000 is cost prohibitive, yet he somehow offers competitive market rates for girth enhancement... this explains my skepticism about what he's injecting people with. I'm not claiming I know with certainty that this is going on, and maybe never will, but his history of being a liar and his reckless willingness of injecting silicone oil AT ALL in addition to the cost-per-volume disparity, who wouldn't ask questions?

My other contention was that silicone oil is a dangerous choice of filler for high volume in the penis from various credible sources over decades monitoring the topic of male phalloplasty. When the Penuma Implant has complications, you usually see it in the first year or two so you tend to see more negative reports more frequently; the scary part about something like silicone oil is that it can take 3, 5, or more years for serious complications to manifest. The lymphatic system is going to go through hell, especially if this isn't medical-grade silicone oil (even then it wouldn't matter a whole lot). Risks like silicone migration (embolisms are no joke), or granulomas that are much more difficult to treat because the matter is oil and not tissue, and so on, are real problems I hear about from credible sources.

In hopefully what will be my last summary on this matter: (1) silicone oil is bad as a penile filler and (2) I have suspicions of his actual filler concoction (despite my inability to prove it). Every other sane, ethical Doctor uses brand name fillers that come in neatly packaged boxes. Dr. Loria is now not only a "Cosmetic Surgeon" (which he isn't) but a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer as well? I mean, come on man.

This will be the third time I politely ask you resume the topic at hand, my response was made to clear up what was most definitely a misunderstanding on your part (off-label legality was never the issue). Now that I've cleared that up in addition to reiterating my sentiments in fewer paragraphs so that my stance is understood, and not something I care to argue, carry on. I don't think you're a bad person or an unappreciated forum member either, and I sincerely hope you don't ever have to deal with complications that stem from your injections (and maybe you never will) -- my comments were aimed at Loria and his quackery is all. Again, let's carry on.

To preface this lengthy response, all posts made on this site are under my domain. I can delete, move, or edit any content as I please at my discretion, with no obligation to provide anyone a reason whatsoever. I'm not sure what made you believe telling the site's Owner to "stop" was going to achieve, especially if we wish to keep the discourse constructive, meaningful, and mature. Yes this is your Progress Report, but you don't own the server space that this topic resides in, and for as long as I believe it is relevant (and within Forum Rules), I'll allow you to have some level of ownership of it. However, myself & the Moderation Team are the final arbiters and we can insert ourselves in any topic if & when necessary.

I wouldn't have reiterated my position had you not mentioned this dangerous "patented filler," which came off as a means of validating this procedure (whether intentional or not). High volume silicone oil in the penis is bad bad bad. It'd be extremely irresponsible for me to stand idly by to allow my readership to believe this methodology has any merit. Hell, his own patent states:

1. A filler composition comprising:
(a) 1% to 80% of a silicone oil having a viscosity from 12500-30000 centistokes (cSt);
(b) 20% to 99% of water; and
(c) 0.005% to 10% of a thickening agent

I mean, is this a joke? Can anyone with patent knowledge please explain why there seems to be a "toss up" in the ratio of ingredients you may get injected? I read the whole patent and a lot of it was speculation on which viscosities would prove more effective, but nothing about exactly what you're getting. Furthermore, no mention of Silikon1000, which further validates my suspicions he's sourcing cheaper silicone oil like that other Clinic I won't name in Mexico (not Avanti Derma). If he were importing Chinese cement, would you even know? Even if he insists it's Silikon1000, there would be no way for you to know because the concoction was previously formulated in a lab, and you are effectively getting a mystery cocktail. And if he could prove it 100%, it'd still be the worst possible choice of filler to have injected. It's a lose-lose proposition.

Why is it that with every other ethical Doctor, you know exactly what you're getting, but with this Loria guy, it feels like you're at a used-car dealership constantly getting the runaround?

Not to mention that this "proprietary/patented" filler isn't trialed, studied, or peer-reviewed, much less distributed through an actual major manufacturer, although we do have a history of it being a poor quality choice for penile enhancement (silicone oil) from both former patients & experts alike.

If there is indeed no Silikon1000 (and instead an alternative silicone oil), he can't even use the off-label loophole, and since the FDA regulates dermal fillers as medical devices, this may be potentially be some kind of an infraction of sorts. Doctors do and have had license revocations, and even worse, I've read articles on rogue Doctors getting arrested for going beyond the scope of mere malpractice.

He takes advantage of many men who are desperate for size, that's how Dr. Elist made his millions, by luring them into a method that provides the Doctor the highest profit margins at the cost of higher risks to the patient. Loria does so by being one of the biggest investors in penis enlargement advertising on Google that I know of, which I've based off of just how frequently his ads show up whenever I'm running SEO audits. This is how he pulls them in before they get a chance of finding a place like the PhalloBoards because GoogleAds are always listed first (sadly). His fishing lure extends even further, when his site suggested (not sure if it's still there, I refuse to give his website anymore clicks) that gains of 5 inches in length were possible, on top of the absurd amount of girth achievable via silicone oil -- can you picture how an unsuspecting, uninformed and desperate guy might make the phone call the next morning oblivious to the nuances, history, and risks of this kind of elective procedure?

For a guy who blatantly lied and actually used the term "Cosmetic Surgeon" on his website (not sure if it's still there), that tells you all you need to know -- a surgeon has a much higher level of training and accreditation, with the widest scope of medical skill, and Loria spent most his career as a (non-surgeon) Hair Restoration specialist.

I've made clear on many occasions that the PhalloBoards is a No-Silicone-Zone but that doesn't mean men can't share their experiences, good or bad -- it means that this site and all its prestigious Dermatologists, Plastic Surgeons, and Urologists have unanimously condemned the use of high volume silicone oil in the penis. I wasn't arguing with you, it was a Public Service Announcement (PSA) type of reply.

By the way, telling the site's Administrator to "Stop" is like asking a Cop to "Stop" giving you warning tickets because you went slightly above the speed limit. The analogy works the same here, I'm not going to prevent you from posting your experiences despite my disdain for Loria, because the free flow of information is critical... but the moment you assert anything that could validate this procedure will run the risk of misleading my readership, and I refuse to put them in harm's way. So while you may not have been WAY over the speed limit (i.e. violating forum rules and such), any comments that lend credence to this unacceptably risky procedure will receive a warning, every time.

Also food for thought: Why not take money from the Elists and Lorias of the world (who I could even justifiably charge at a premium and I have no doubt they'd pay given their propensity to pump funds into online marketing). What's stopping me from deleting all their negative comments, deleting comments of people critical of these actions, so that all the newcomers to the PhalloBoards wouldn't be the wiser? While I'm by no means rich/wealthy, what I'd charge both Elist & Loria for "airtime" on this platform would probably allow me to make monthly payments on an Aston Martin. However, I'd much rather preserve the integrity of this site, as I'm extremely averse to deceptive practices, especially by those who we should feel we can put our trust in (physicians, law enforcement, politicians, etc). When they cross the line, someone should hold them accountable. In this small niche of a topic (medical male enhancement), I've taken on that responsibility, and have done so successfully for over a decade.

I ask we resume the topic at hand -- EricPig's experience(s) and not so much the merit of the procedure itself (unless of course you want me to continuously contest any assertion that gives this "mad science" any credibility). As you said yourself EricPig, you wish not to argue, and I explained why I made the reply I did. So let's settle it here and carry on, thanks.

This was literally answered here, where you even replied after my explanation. Creating a new topic after this question has been answered only saturates the forum with redundant posts, bloating information access for others. Using the SEARCH tab, and typing in Ellanse, my answer was on the first page of results. Please be mindful of this, and I will likely delete this topic altogether, only keeping this around for you and others to see Forum Policy (I just deleted another one asking the same question). A little extra time spent scrolling through search queries isn't too much to ask.

Given that I read every post on the forum as well as get updates from Ellanse providers, I would be most privy to the current consensus - and to reiterate what was concluded in the long post I linked above, there doesn't appear to be any definitive answer to the question of this topic "Ellanse Collagen Duration" (yet).

If you use the SEARCH tab on PhalloBoards 2.0 , it's quite easy to ascertain that the topic of Ellanse only began to pick up steam 5 years ago (search results there show the age of the posts). Since then, I can't recall anyone requiring "top-offs" or having returned since to report significant size loss (on the contrary, most guys report their size remains stable) -- although in fairness, it could have been mentioned once or twice that some guys have seen size-loss among thousands of posts I've read, but that would mean it's such an uncommon occurrence that it doesn't trend.

Given the following facts: (1) Ellanse is non-FDA approved (meaning no available peer-reviewed American medical literature), (2) has its own manufacturer severely under-project its product's lifetime (you would think their researchers would take collagen half-life into account, no?), and (3) has little-to-no reporting of notable size loss on the only website in the world that discusses Ellanse injections for the penis (implying that some men are approaching the 5+ year post-op window, exceeding the range set by Ellanse's manufacturer) -- you'll see the complexity in getting a definitive answer. In addition to this complexity, consider the potential bias that comes with asking the Ellanse's manufacturer (who are already dealing with the fallout from being way off the mark on their filler's duration), or any of the Clinics that I mentioned whom I trust, but they are in fact businesses and not just medical practices, and will likely provide an honest yet safe answer in the favor of a product they use..

I want to stress that I'm not concluding with certainty regarding Ellanse's duration in all or some patients, only that the reported & anecdotal evidence shows that it's lasted longer than the manufacturer's projected lifetime, hence the removal of some of their products off the market (like how the 1 & 2 year options were effectively misleading, even if unintended or unexpected). Also, like with all temporary fillers, our own body's propensity (how efficiently) to breakdown foreign bodies/substances will mean that there will be varying degrees of longevity -+- in conjunction with the collagen type triggered by Ellanse, and its associated half-life or projected lifespan.

Hopefully you do get a chance to read this before the topic is deleted (that's if I choose to delete it; it's more that I want this forum to be accessible and not overwhelming with repeat postings). That said, the silver lining here is that you've given me an incentive to create a Topic in the near future regarding this very issue (Ellanse duration) by sending correspondences to Avanti Derma and Androfill, the two leading Ellanse providers for penile-injections in the world, as well as Ellanse's Manufacturer, to get both their opinions and any actual statistics in order to compile all pertinent information in one place. Yes, some of the information I will receive may have some degree of bias (like I mentioned previously), but that'll be our job as a community to draw the best judgment we can with what information is available, because at the end of the day, male phalloplasty is still a new frontier in cosmetic medicine.

Also, this new Topic that I'll create will also be a great place for long-term Ellanse patients to chime in with (1) how many years post-op, (2) how many sessions overall, and (3) any notable size-loss independent of erection quality, etc.

Rybrad wrote: 1. This is very expensive and having to top up every 6 months to a year would not be financially attainable for me. However, if I had to top up every 18 months to 2 years, that is doable for me. I was always under the assumption that HA lasted 6 months to a year, but Phallofill is making longer lasting claims. What is your opinion?

The dissipation of temporary fillers like Hyaluronic Acid (HA) or Radiesse seems largely determined by your own body's rate of breaking down and removing foreign substances. Our bodies all seem to vary in rates of speed when it comes to different things. Think how some people can grow really long hair really fast while others would have to commit to years to achieve the same length. Not all processes & physiologies are equal.. There may be other factors at play as well, but in the end you really won't know the extent of retention until you actually get it done. I have absolutely heard of verified 2 year retentions and on the flip side, as low as 6 months.

That said, you have to keep something in mind which may alleviate the cost burden: Typically when people get top-offs, they are injecting less volume, and so in theory you should be paying less than the original price (assuming you are injecting considerably less volume the 2nd time around). Think of this example: after about 18 months you are at a 50% loss of your original HA gains. At this time, if you were to go in for a top-off, you won't need nearly the same volume to reach the size you were the first time around, which would presumably be cheaper. I won't speak for PhalloFILL because despite all the other (non-Dallas) Clinics being affiliated with the company name, they are in-fact independent as a practice & business. You'll have to inquire with whichever location you plan on visiting regarding top-off rates (flat-rate pricing vs price-per-volume injected).

I also want to stress how reasonable rates have become despite inflation + being a very specialized niche & uncommon procedure. In the 90's and 2000's, $15,000 was a steal of a price with a strong forecast of depressing complications. I think at present time, my most expensive FILLER Sponsor is around $10,000, and that's largely due to overhead as he operates out of some of the most expensive real estate in the country and also happens to be highly credentialed. More importantly, think about the confidence-per-dollar you get with a fatter cock versus a coveted sports car. While I'm sure some of you have your own motivations, the vast majority of guys want the big dick no less than they want the Porsche, except now we live in a time where the big dick amounts to 5% of the cost of a luxury/sports car with comparable effect. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy promoting healthy competition amongst my Sponsors (while representing them fairly to the best of my ability), which in turn helps keep costs reasonable. I try to encourage seasonal promotions and such to ensure readership here can grab at whatever they can take off the top. At present time, PhalloBoard Members have a 5% Discount with Androfill (Ellanse & HA - United Kingdom) and a 10% Off any Male Enhancement Services from Jiva Med Spa (Which includes Bellafill PMMA). Find their contact info by clicking here and mention the PhalloBoards member discount prior or during booking.

Regardless of all of that, let us not forget that this is an aesthetic elective medical procedure that are performed by maybe 20-25 practitioners in the North America worth trusting your penis with (yes that includes some non-Sponsors)... this by very definition makes it a luxury... but perhaps the most inexpensive luxury for men all things considered.

Rybrad wrote: 2. How spongy does it feel? Does it feel like your natural penis, or is there an obvious softness to it that is easily discernable? I'd like to maintain stiff erections and not have a squishy feeling when hard?

This comes up a lot, and I think it has to do with earlier iterations of HA. As some of you may or may not know, HA is naturally created in the body (one of a few reasons it has such a strong safety profile), and medical manufacturers learned that they can make it in the lab through a technique called cross-linking. Older iterations of HA were used for soft areas (face, etc) and it wasn't until more recently that cosmetic medicine had expanded its use all over the body. Now there are cross-linked iterations much more robust and compatible for use in the penis.

This explains why some of the more recent HA reviews (either in a Progress Report or Directory Rating) have been generally positive. What has made PhalloFILL so popular so quickly is that they really put in the work to find the right brand of HA that would provide both the best kind of retention, and more importantly, "feel & naturalness."

It should also be noted that you don't want the penis to be too hard much like you wouldn't want it to be too soft. Even an erect penis has some "give" when pressed against the skin. I've been to an Adult Novelty store, and that's when I noticed that ZERO of the dildos (which are meant to mimic an actual penis) were ever as hard as vibrators (which are meant to provide stimulation as an electrical device).

Last advice here regarding the "feel" of HA. If you are the type that is hyper-critical then I'd strongly recommend being circumcised and starting with low-to-medium volumes. This way if you didn't like it, it's easy to manage and will eventually dissipate. If you can live with potential imperfections that only you will notice, then go with whatever the practitioner recommends. And by the way, the potential imperfections wasn't a knock on HA, all fillers have a degree of unpredictability, now matter how good the doctor or filler is.

Rybrad wrote: 3. They have locations all over the US and even one in my city, but I want to go with the practitioner with the most experience. Would this be the Dallas location?

So part of the affiliation is that PhalloFILL provided training (among other things) to these would-be affiliates, and so they are all in theory qualified to do a modest (or even great) job. That said, for me it would be Dallas 100%. They are the ACTUAL FOUNDERS AND COMPANY of PhalloFILL and they've also had a pretty good reputation with keeping patients satisfied (they have the most ratings in the Directory Listing section of this site).

However, if budgeting and logistics is of notable importance, then call your closest PhalloFILL Office, many of them being Urology practices, more than equipped and familiar with penile health & enhancement.