PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement

Dr Oates wrote: Indiano123,

We have Ellanse a non permanent filler which can last 4+yrs. It splits the difference between HA and PMMA. I did a second test patient last weekend. Technically it was the same as doing HA - maybe easier. Need to see how it settles. My first test with Ellanse

aleksk wrote: Thanks for sharing. I know you said you won\'t answer any questions, but I assume that refers to your recent pmma experience as you\'re waiting to see how it will play out.

Could you please answer a question about your dissatisfaction with Voluma/Teosyal as many of us are considering it and most of us don\'t personally know anyone who had it to have a conversation with them?

- It felt wrong in what way? Was it too soft when erect? Did you try to have sex with it? Was it an obstacle/issue during sex/penetration? Was it prone to movement? Did you notice any difference between Voluma and Teosyal in this respect or any other?

Sure you would expect pmma to integrate better with the underlying tissue than HA fillers. This is why I spent so much time researching Ellanse. This is why I\'ve said so many times Voluma is stupid in the sense that it just fills and does nothing else. This is why almost all my posts are meant to invite people to research, explore and share thoughts and experiences about other fillers.

I\'ve also suggested your approach before - have very small quantities of a filler like Ellanse at a time until you reach a modest goal. Give it time to do its job, integrate and create new tissue before you go for more.

You could say it is a sensible approach for any filler but especially bio stimulating fillers - not so much the stupid HA gamma of fillers where what you see is what you get. Even fat - how likely it is that 5 cc of fat at a time would result in the complications we see from fat injections? But the stupid \'what you see is what you get\' characteristic of HA fillers is also a big advantage of theirs, in terms of you don\'t have to live a life where suddenly the filler decides to do something nasty and misshape your penis or even give you serious complications. The guy I referred to above says his injector did more than fine - his penis looked good for few weeks and he was very happy. Then the shit happened and now I feel sorry for him because he feels he is screwed for life. He doesn\'t have a recourse. He had a great looking dick with a decent size and decided pmma is a marvelous idea based on reading this forum exclusively. Obviously he only did selective reading. And now he\'ll have to live with the contour irregularities for the rest of his life and have every new partner question his shape/size every single time. I\'d rather stay small than live that scenario for the rest of my life.

So, please share if you could your experience with HA fillers and what your dissatisfaction stemmed from.

The \'what is better - ha or pmma\' debate could not be objectively developed on this forum because we don\'t have a critical mass (or any mass for that matter) of men who have had HA. Hence, I ask you to please share more of your experience with ha.

hoddle10 wrote:
There is no real difference between regular silicone that was used in the 70\'s and 80\'s and Silikon1000. It\'s the injection technique that makes the difference. If a micro droplet technique is used, small, individual droplets of silicone are injected and over the coming weeks these individual droplets get encapsulated in collagen, just like PMMA, Ellanse or Radiesse. However, this technique takes a long time to do and only small amounts can be used to ensure each droplet is separate. If \"improper\" technique is used, the administrator just injects the stuff as if it were HA. Larger volumes are used and instead of individual micro droplets, a continuous blob of silicone is produced. This means it can move and migrate. Dr Loria tries to prevent this by trapping as much as the silicone in place with bandages etc, until a larger capsule has formed. It\'s no different to basic back street silicone injections, only much more expensive.

indiano123 wrote: In his other thread u said he will have just liquid what do u mean? Does the silicon1000 not become scar tissue since its a foreign body?

Dr Oates wrote:
To Dr Oates: I\'d like to hear your input on Ellanse since you agreed with Aleksk\'s assessment and also since you have injected patients with it. Do you have any follow up data with your patients and/or reasons to believe this filler may be problematic or is it just that nobody knows right now?

The one patient, so far, with Ellanse is very happy. He had a lot of swelling with HA and says to him Ellanse feels more like normal.

I have 1 patient with Ellanse in her face with granulomas....

I\'m also very interested to hear comments for the post above as HA firmness questions seem to be the least defined/described attribute for the procedure or at least at this point in time. Ive read that it\'s a \"little\" firmer that FFT or that it doesn\'t \"really\" move around that much. I would personally be more confident making a decision for HA if the look and feel questions were addressed with more detail so I can picture what it will be like before forehand.

smalljay wrote:
Sorry in advance for picking your post apart, aleksk. But it reminded me of some posts of mine from the past which I wanted to point out. The thing is, we know much more about Radiesse in the penis than we do about Ellanse (even then, we still know very little about Radiesse in the penis). The assertions you make like \"much more advanced than Radiesse\", \"much higher viscosity than Voluma, therefore it should feel firmer\", etc, reminds me of posts I used to make about a substance called Lipen D (cross linked Dextran) for the glans. I used to talk here about how much better it was than HA, because it was thicker, longer lasting, and a whole bunch of other things I believed to be true because of the propaganda on the practitioner\'s website (which ranted about how HA in the glans sucks, looks bad, doesn\'t last etc etc). I had built up all this \'knowledge\' from over a year of research, only to find out after the procedure that I didn\'t really know shit, and that in fact the higher viscosity, long lasting nature and irreversibility of Lipen D was a terrible thing, and now I have necrosis scars on my dick head and discoloration for life.

I just wanted to \'check\' you and others here, who, when researching these things - might assume that what you read is true - don\'t draw conclusions before you or many others actually experience it first hand. Until you get Ellanse put into your dick, you simply won\'t know whether it\'s a good product or a bad one. The long lasting nature could be a terrible aspect, because what if you get a shit result from some unexpected factor? Now you\'re stuck with this very fringe, unknown product in your dick for 5 years?

I\'m glad you\'ve chosen to go with HA, because that is the safest choice. It\'s by far the most researched filler. Ellanse is a fucking mystery, and everything you\'ve ever read about it could be bullshit marketing.

Just my thoughts. Guys, PE is dangerous - stick to what is well documented - don\'t be the guinea pig. Not to say that just because a ton of guys have got PMMA that you should necessarily go for it - I\'m more referencing HA here. It\'s temporary, reversible, native to the human body and extremely well documented here and in academia in general.

aleksk wrote: I am still struggling with a complications from an ha filler in my face. I finally got a referral from a dermatologist and hope something can be done. I found an article which said that for most people a foreign body granuloma is a once in a life-time event so I hope it doesn\'t mean that if I have it injected in my dick there will be complications. 

Unfortunately, this problem has prevented me from getting ha until it gets resolved. I am hoping a steroid injection to the site and some pulsed light treatments will solve the problem based on all the research I\'ve done. I can\'t believe I\'m in the unlucky 1% who has to deal with this shit. 

I think the combination of two fillers in the same area may have contributed to this problem. 

In the meantime, I\'m reading about any advances in the filler space to be able to make the best choice on the price-quality scale. I\'m still interested in Ellanse and hoping Dr Oates will report something new about this economical, long-lasting and bio-voluminizing filler. 

Also, in the PS world I note there has been quite a bit of talk about this new permanent filler called Allofill. I wonder if there may be any applications in PE. I guess it would have the same problems as fat injections? However, I\'ve been thinking and reading about it more. I\'m speculating here, but since it\'s fat that they do not have to harvest from you, I wonder if the solution for PE may be small quantity injections at a time until the desired volume is achieved. Wouldn\'t that be much, much safer and aeshetically pleasing than trying to fill the dick all at once with 20cc or so of fat that is more than likely to lump, unevenly absorb and result in all sorts of other unwanted shit. You would have to find a doctor who would be willing to cooperate and do this small injections at a time. Does this make any sense? It sounds 100% safe and potentially 100% permanent. But then we all know how much of a gamble fat grafting can be. What do you think about this new filler, Dr Oates?  www.allofill.com/

Speaking of fat grafting, I wonder if anyone tried this in PE using Stromal Vascular Fraction (SVF) enriched grafts. I\'ve been reading a lot about this lately and decided to give it a try to solve a problem I have (not PE related). Apparently, it\'s much, much superior than simple fat grafting and there are numerous studies behind it. I am just wondering if we are discarding fat as a potential filler based on the early quite rudimentary procedures where they simply liposuctioned and injected without much sophistication or technology. It seems that there have been some very large advances in the field. 

Anyway, hope to hear what Dr Oates and everyone else thinks about Allofill and my idea of very gradual injections - perhaps 5 or 6 sessions to inject 20-25 cc?. I don\'t know, I\'m just speculating. But I\'ve always wondered, apart from the Drs\' economic interest, why PE filling is not done more gradually. Surely small quantities at a time are much, much less likely to result in lumps, irregularities, unwanted inflammatory responses, rejections etc. I understand it may not be possible to spread as little as 4-5 cc evenly at a time, but I\'ve heard of cases who get as little as 5 cc of Radiesse or other filler and did see a difference and reported that it was aeshetically pleasing. I can\'t help but think, apart from the fact that it may not be economical and practical for the doctor, isn\'t this the way to go? 

As a side note, I hope more people can do research on filler advances and post here as I always do. We really need to get the discussion going about Ellanse and everything else. PMMA belongs to the Middle Ages of PE with all its complications, and even fillers like Voluma which are clearly overpriced and out of reach to many are simply not adequate in the long run.




Hi Aleksk,

Some interesting points.

I had not heard of Allofill before. So it is fat, presumably from selected people having liposuction. We dont have it in Australia. Fat is interesting as a filler anywhere. The key probably is in the harvesting and processing. Its main advantage is that you have your own fat injected - no worries with blood borne infection/rejection etc. To avoid rejection, and not need life long immunosuppression like for a kidney transplant, I can only assume there are no cells in Allofill. So what actually is it? I have contacted them for more info.

Maybe fat transfers benefits come from the stem cells naturally in fat. Maybe the same for SVF. There have been claims for years about 1 system or the other giving reliable fat transfers. Maybe there is. But you would think the doctors would get to know pretty quick if something was way ahead of other techniques. Maybe someone is. I am not sure - but would love a reliable and affordable FFT technique.

Granulomas tend to inmprove with hyalase - but may need a push to resolve the inflammation (FBG). So yep, steroid plus 5FU. Consider the antibiotic Minomycin, not for infection but rather the immune modulating effect.

Multiple smaller injections of HA - absolutely fine. But lumps are generally not much of an issue up to 10 - 15 ml. It may be disappointing to have 5ml and not get enough benefit. We went through that for years in the face. We routinely do CALIBRE as a 2 session procedure for 15ml now.

Ellanse - I would like to trial 2 more guys at cost price for 3 yr version of Ellanse. Will need to check the price (Sunday night now) but will be about $300/ml. Phalloboards member only. Will start a thread for this.