PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement

EricPig wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote: First and foremost, my proclamations on the matter come from a multitude of respected physicians with considerably more authority on the subject, so this is not simply my own assumptions.

Secondly, Dr. Loria is a career liar. You have no idea how many times he changed up his vocabulary with respect to his filler and how quickly he'd change subjects. I've joined in on calls, and I've had members join in on conference calls, and he would just toss around gibberish assuming us (the "ignorant") would take his word for it. He would even throw around terms like "PMMA" and "Collagen production" and wouldn't even mention silicone at first. He's so evasive in fact, that there is a former patient on a separate PE forum who shared a story when in the hospital for his penis condition, that Loria refused to give the physicians information on what was injected. Can you believe that? This patient facing infection that could lead to sepsis, and Loria didn't have even the morality to do the right thing for his own patient because he's clearly got something to hide. I really try my hardest to refrain from name-calling as it is not befitting of an Administrator of a site discussing serious topics, but that was such a scumbag move on Loria's part and tells me everything I need to know about who he really is.

When I brought up him using the term "Cosmetic Surgeon," it wasn't meant to say that you need to be a surgeon to perform these procedures, it was to say he was lying about his medical background because he's in-fact NOT a surgeon in any capacity.

Yes, I received an email from his marketing rep, not himself obviously. He's too proud and stubborn to ever make the first move. I've defended Sponsors and Non-Sponsors alike. I'm open to new Sponsors. Ask yourself why I won't accept Loria? Why not take his money? Ask yourself why the vast majority of penis enlargement doctors don't include silicone oil as a filler option when they can use Silikon100 off-label? Do you really truly believe this Hair Restoration "specialist" has figured out what career-accomplished surgeons and urologists haven't?

Having followed the scene since 2005 and learned the nuances of the penis and these procedures from the Doctors themselves sort of actually does amount to the same kind of "credits" you'd need to earn to have some above-average understanding of the topic matter -- more so than a random "nurse" I'd contend. I've spent countless hours reading not only posts, but private messages, emails, and other modes of communication for well over a decade with both patients and Doctors (some of which were non-Sponsors). I've studied sexual medicine to the extent that I have a good understanding of anatomy and some of the physiologies involved, especially as it pertains to penis enlargement. Sure, I'm not a medical professional, but I do see myself as the most qualified Patient Educator there is (on matters of penis enlargement). Either way, my claims are made on the information provided to me by those who are in the know, and many of them.

Clearly your schooling has not made you any smarter on making good decisions in this respect, and I'm afraid not even a Doctorate will solve your inability to see the patterns of deception -- but I get it, the last thing you want to think about is having a ticking timebomb in your penis, so you have to double down on defending your poorly made decision by reassuring yourself that because you've had some medical training, that you're incapable of being scammed. You know, no one likes being scammed, it's a tough pill to swallow as a grown adult. Besides, an ICU Nurse? I seldom "LOL" on this forum but I know a few personally (ICU in fact), and I assure you they wouldn't have a damn clue about the nuances of penis enlargement, so kick rocks with that nonsense please.

Dr. Elist has been performing his botcheries circa 2009, and we all know how terrible his procedure is. Dr. Loria's patient count doesn't give him any points, all it tells me is that he's a sociopath for cash.

Yes, many of the Doctors I know of actually show the box, or at the very least, will have the box and serial number sticker per request.

You do realize that until he has FDA clearance, he's injecting you illegally, right?

Do you actually believe he changes the ratios of his filler ingredients per patient on the day of the procedure? Right there and then in his lab by just examining your penis? I mean that seems rather tedious, inefficient, and costly. Did you have to wait a while before he came into the room with the syringes? Seems bizarre if you ask me. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager a pretty penny he has a set ratio premade ready to go, largely that of silicone oil that is imported illegally in order to give him absurd profit margins. Last I checked, Silikon1000 was the 2nd most expensive filler, only behind Bellafill (PMMA), and looking at some price lists right now, may have exceeded that of Bellafill. To pump the kind of volumes you require with this type of filler (60cc's +) and keep his pricing market-competitive, I'm having a hard time believing he's using anything legally. But you just haven't asked yourself those kind of questions, have you? I'm trying to do you a favor here, if you can only see it.

What you ultimately fail to see is that this site promotes the efficacious methods of phalloplasty based on its history, the science/medicine behind it, and patient feedback. The PhalloBoards is the only site, community, and validated source (via physician education & endorsement) that has followed this niche topic, and has done so for 13 years. It isn't bias, it's reality. If it were bias, why would I provide my readership with different options like Alloderm, Surgimend, Ellanse, Hyaluronic Acid, Radiesse, PMMA (Bellafill AND Linnea Safe), Renuva, Fat Transfer, and so on? PRP and exosomes? Different regions, states, different countries? Do you think some of my Sponsors were thrilled that P-Long came along? Well, it was an alternative to phalloplasty for guys who like to do PE exercises. By encouraging healthy competition, I play a role in lowering market costs and incentivizing innovation among the leaders in phalloplasty. I have weekly/monthly calls and can't wait for them to share some advances made that I'm not at liberty to speak of at present time (because they need to be fully tested). I'm clearly taking the sides of methods I know don't possess unacceptable levels of risk based on a knowledge that you simply do not have -- if that's bias, fine, I'll concede that much. And yes, all elective procedures are not without risk, but there is a line that when crossed, becomes unacceptable.

If this wasn't an open free flow of information, wouldn't I have simply deleted your posts and banned you? If you want to continue insulting this forum and its community, then you can go take a hike. We've been very receptive to your experience(s), but I've stated on innumerable occasions that this site is a No-Silicone-Zone, and so whenever the procedure itself is promoted or recommended, I've made it a forum policy to provide the necessary information to many newcomers who are simply unaware. If hypothetically PMMA (known to be non-carcinogenic) were to somehow have a 100% direct causality with cancer, not only would most ethical Doctors discontinue its use, but those who choose not to would be admonished and black-listed.

I've seen enough emails of Loria patients begging for assistance, and Doctors telling me the nightmares they've seen fixing his garbage-excuse for work. This is also true for the Penuma (Elist implant). However, I just don't get that level of scary reporting from the aforementioned procedures I support (like HA and PMMA and so on). Those mostly deal with aesthetic issues that never impact the health and/or function of the penis.

Oof, the kind of skin grafts required to fix a Loria procedure gone wrong, or the severity of late stage granulomas with something so synthetic, or migration into other parts of the body... I know of a forum veteran who I won't mention that is experiencing illness that may be related to silicone oil according to some back-channel sources, if I get confirmation that the diagnosis is confirmed (or get him willing to acknowledge it here), I will.

Lastly, you told me you didn't want to argue, and I made clear my post was a PSA in response to what may have been an intentional or unintentional promotion of this procedure (citing patents give people the impression of legitimacy), and it wasn't necessarily to argue with you. I also asked in my last post that we carry on, because as you said yourself, you wish not to argue. Everything I've said has been factual, honest, and informed. The only thing I said that I can't prove (but believe the evidence is strongly in favor of) is my belief that he sources/imports silicone illegally because there is no way he's charging those prices for the amount of volume being injected, even in bulk. Everything else were facts, plain and simple.

Based on your insistence that there are no more arguments, I am politely asking everyone please resume the topic at hand.

I agree with you to move on. I don’t really care to address many of the above comments since it will just keep this discussion going. However I do want to be clear that use of medications off label (the use of drugs outside the approved FDA intention) is in fact legal. Also to that point as the below link will highlight- doctors are not required to tell patients if the medications they are prescribing are being done in an “off label” manner. However Loria does.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/inf...on-medications/2012-

07#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20many%20physicians%20prescribe,of%20informed%20consent%20is%20introduced.

www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/off...hat-you-need-to-know

I understand that to those who are not medical this might come as a shock but I just wanted to clear that up that it is not illegal. So please make sure your sticking to your word when you profess to be educated on these matters and putting down healthcare workers and their educations when it’s us who care for you and your loved ones.

I also wanna comment that I don’t think you’re a bad dude. I appreciate that you care and take a strong stance in your opinion. I do believe you truly dislike Loria and his practice and want to convince guys to avoid him. I completely disagree with your view but you’re entitled to feel how you do.
I encourage everyone to not take your word nor my word and to do their own research and speak to patients from all companies to get their experiences.

No one once disputed the use of dermal fillers off-label as being legal or illegal. Every Sponsor, like most cosmetic doctors & surgeons, use fillers off-label and the FDA is well aware and typically don't intervene. Many medications are prescribed off-label all the time. No one here is shocked, it's common knowledge and It doesn't take an ICU Nurse to know this... not only does this make you sound embarrassingly pretentious, but makes me believe you didn't bother to read a word I typed, and yet still had the audacity to reply with something that was never being argued in the first place.

My point overall was NOT about off-label use, but rather my suspicion that he's acquired (i.e. imported) non-FDA approved silicone oil, which would then make it a matter of legality. You would have known this if you read what I typed, but again, I feel like you're selectively ignoring details in my posts for whatever reason(??). The amount of volume he injects (60cc's-100cc's +) using Silikon1000 is cost prohibitive, yet he somehow offers competitive market rates for girth enhancement... this explains my skepticism about what he's injecting people with. I'm not claiming I know with certainty that this is going on, and maybe never will, but his history of being a liar and his reckless willingness of injecting silicone oil AT ALL in addition to the cost-per-volume disparity, who wouldn't ask questions?

My other contention was that silicone oil is a dangerous choice of filler for high volume in the penis from various credible sources over decades monitoring the topic of male phalloplasty. When the Penuma Implant has complications, you usually see it in the first year or two so you tend to see more negative reports more frequently; the scary part about something like silicone oil is that it can take 3, 5, or more years for serious complications to manifest. The lymphatic system is going to go through hell, especially if this isn't medical-grade silicone oil (even then it wouldn't matter a whole lot). Risks like silicone migration (embolisms are no joke), or granulomas that are much more difficult to treat because the matter is oil and not tissue, and so on, are real problems I hear about from credible sources.

In hopefully what will be my last summary on this matter: (1) silicone oil is bad as a penile filler and (2) I have suspicions of his actual filler concoction (despite my inability to prove it). Every other sane, ethical Doctor uses brand name fillers that come in neatly packaged boxes. Dr. Loria is now not only a "Cosmetic Surgeon" (which he isn't) but a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer as well? I mean, come on man.

This will be the third time I politely ask you resume the topic at hand, my response was made to clear up what was most definitely a misunderstanding on your part (off-label legality was never the issue). Now that I've cleared that up in addition to reiterating my sentiments in fewer paragraphs so that my stance is understood, and not something I care to argue, carry on. I don't think you're a bad person or an unappreciated forum member either, and I sincerely hope you don't ever have to deal with complications that stem from your injections (and maybe you never will) -- my comments were aimed at Loria and his quackery is all. Again, let's carry on.

Skeptical_One wrote: First and foremost, my proclamations on the matter come from a multitude of respected physicians with considerably more authority on the subject, so this is not simply my own assumptions.

Secondly, Dr. Loria is a career liar. You have no idea how many times he changed up his vocabulary with respect to his filler and how quickly he'd change subjects. I've joined in on calls, and I've had members join in on conference calls, and he would just toss around gibberish assuming us (the "ignorant") would take his word for it. He would even throw around terms like "PMMA" and "Collagen production" and wouldn't even mention silicone at first. He's so evasive in fact, that there is a former patient on a separate PE forum who shared a story when in the hospital for his penis condition, that Loria refused to give the physicians information on what was injected. Can you believe that? This patient facing infection that could lead to sepsis, and Loria didn't have even the morality to do the right thing for his own patient because he's clearly got something to hide. I really try my hardest to refrain from name-calling as it is not befitting of an Administrator of a site discussing serious topics, but that was such a scumbag move on Loria's part and tells me everything I need to know about who he really is.

When I brought up him using the term "Cosmetic Surgeon," it wasn't meant to say that you need to be a surgeon to perform these procedures, it was to say he was lying about his medical background because he's in-fact NOT a surgeon in any capacity.

Yes, I received an email from his marketing rep, not himself obviously. He's too proud and stubborn to ever make the first move. I've defended Sponsors and Non-Sponsors alike. I'm open to new Sponsors. Ask yourself why I won't accept Loria? Why not take his money? Ask yourself why the vast majority of penis enlargement doctors don't include silicone oil as a filler option when they can use Silikon100 off-label? Do you really truly believe this Hair Restoration "specialist" has figured out what career-accomplished surgeons and urologists haven't?

Having followed the scene since 2005 and learned the nuances of the penis and these procedures from the Doctors themselves sort of actually does amount to the same kind of "credits" you'd need to earn to have some above-average understanding of the topic matter -- more so than a random "nurse" I'd contend. I've spent countless hours reading not only posts, but private messages, emails, and other modes of communication for well over a decade with both patients and Doctors (some of which were non-Sponsors). I've studied sexual medicine to the extent that I have a good understanding of anatomy and some of the physiologies involved, especially as it pertains to penis enlargement. Sure, I'm not a medical professional, but I do see myself as the most qualified Patient Educator there is (on matters of penis enlargement). Either way, my claims are made on the information provided to me by those who are in the know, and many of them.

Clearly your schooling has not made you any smarter on making good decisions in this respect, and I'm afraid not even a Doctorate will solve your inability to see the patterns of deception -- but I get it, the last thing you want to think about is having a ticking timebomb in your penis, so you have to double down on defending your poorly made decision by reassuring yourself that because you've had some medical training, that you're incapable of being scammed. You know, no one likes being scammed, it's a tough pill to swallow as a grown adult. Besides, an ICU Nurse? I seldom "LOL" on this forum but I know a few personally (ICU in fact), and I assure you they wouldn't have a damn clue about the nuances of penis enlargement, so kick rocks with that nonsense please.

Dr. Elist has been performing his botcheries circa 2009, and we all know how terrible his procedure is. Dr. Loria's patient count doesn't give him any points, all it tells me is that he's a sociopath for cash.

Yes, many of the Doctors I know of actually show the box, or at the very least, will have the box and serial number sticker per request.

You do realize that until he has FDA clearance, he's injecting you illegally, right?

Do you actually believe he changes the ratios of his filler ingredients per patient on the day of the procedure? Right there and then in his lab by just examining your penis? I mean that seems rather tedious, inefficient, and costly. Did you have to wait a while before he came into the room with the syringes? Seems bizarre if you ask me. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager a pretty penny he has a set ratio premade ready to go, largely that of silicone oil that is imported illegally in order to give him absurd profit margins. Last I checked, Silikon1000 was the 2nd most expensive filler, only behind Bellafill (PMMA), and looking at some price lists right now, may have exceeded that of Bellafill. To pump the kind of volumes you require with this type of filler (60cc's +) and keep his pricing market-competitive, I'm having a hard time believing he's using anything legally. But you just haven't asked yourself those kind of questions, have you? I'm trying to do you a favor here, if you can only see it.

What you ultimately fail to see is that this site promotes the efficacious methods of phalloplasty based on its history, the science/medicine behind it, and patient feedback. The PhalloBoards is the only site, community, and validated source (via physician education & endorsement) that has followed this niche topic, and has done so for 13 years. It isn't bias, it's reality. If it were bias, why would I provide my readership with different options like Alloderm, Surgimend, Ellanse, Hyaluronic Acid, Radiesse, PMMA (Bellafill AND Linnea Safe), Renuva, Fat Transfer, and so on? PRP and exosomes? Different regions, states, different countries? Do you think some of my Sponsors were thrilled that P-Long came along? Well, it was an alternative to phalloplasty for guys who like to do PE exercises. By encouraging healthy competition, I play a role in lowering market costs and incentivizing innovation among the leaders in phalloplasty. I have weekly/monthly calls and can't wait for them to share some advances made that I'm not at liberty to speak of at present time (because they need to be fully tested). I'm clearly taking the sides of methods I know don't possess unacceptable levels of risk based on a knowledge that you simply do not have -- if that's bias, fine, I'll concede that much. And yes, all elective procedures are not without risk, but there is a line that when crossed, becomes unacceptable.

If this wasn't an open free flow of information, wouldn't I have simply deleted your posts and banned you? If you want to continue insulting this forum and its community, then you can go take a hike. We've been very receptive to your experience(s), but I've stated on innumerable occasions that this site is a No-Silicone-Zone, and so whenever the procedure itself is promoted or recommended, I've made it a forum policy to provide the necessary information to many newcomers who are simply unaware. If hypothetically PMMA (known to be non-carcinogenic) were to somehow have a 100% direct causality with cancer, not only would most ethical Doctors discontinue its use, but those who choose not to would be admonished and black-listed.

I've seen enough emails of Loria patients begging for assistance, and Doctors telling me the nightmares they've seen fixing his garbage-excuse for work. This is also true for the Penuma (Elist implant). However, I just don't get that level of scary reporting from the aforementioned procedures I support (like HA and PMMA and so on). Those mostly deal with aesthetic issues that never impact the health and/or function of the penis.

Oof, the kind of skin grafts required to fix a Loria procedure gone wrong, or the severity of late stage granulomas with something so synthetic, or migration into other parts of the body... I know of a forum veteran who I won't mention that is experiencing illness that may be related to silicone oil according to some back-channel sources, if I get confirmation that the diagnosis is confirmed (or get him willing to acknowledge it here), I will.

Lastly, you told me you didn't want to argue, and I made clear my post was a PSA in response to what may have been an intentional or unintentional promotion of this procedure (citing patents give people the impression of legitimacy), and it wasn't necessarily to argue with you. I also asked in my last post that we carry on, because as you said yourself, you wish not to argue. Everything I've said has been factual, honest, and informed. The only thing I said that I can't prove (but believe the evidence is strongly in favor of) is my belief that he sources/imports silicone illegally because there is no way he's charging those prices for the amount of volume being injected, even in bulk. Everything else were facts, plain and simple.

Based on your insistence that there are no more arguments, I am politely asking everyone please resume the topic at hand.

I agree with you to move on. I don’t really care to address many of the above comments since it will just keep this discussion going. However I do want to be clear that use of medications off label (the use of drugs outside the approved FDA intention) is in fact legal. Also to that point as the below link will highlight- doctors are not required to tell patients if the medications they are prescribing are being done in an “off label” manner. However Loria does.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/inf...on-medications/2012-

07#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20many%20physicians%20prescribe,of%20informed%20consent%20is%20introduced.

www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/off...hat-you-need-to-know

I understand that to those who are not medical this might come as a shock but I just wanted to clear that up that it is not illegal. So please make sure your sticking to your word when you profess to be educated on these matters and putting down healthcare workers and their educations when it’s us who care for you and your loved ones.

I also wanna comment that I don’t think you’re a bad dude. I appreciate that you care and take a strong stance in your opinion. I do believe you truly dislike Loria and his practice and want to convince guys to avoid him. I completely disagree with your view but you’re entitled to feel how you do.
I encourage everyone to not take your word nor my word and to do their own research and speak to patients from all companies to get their experiences.

Oh you did? Nice! Great guy.

You're large. What's your goal? I go in again on September 18th. Think I'm around the 7.5 girth mark at my widest point right now, give or take. I'll get another 10 or so syringes and might go with the blend of Radiesse.

Hey Justin I've used Dr. Leonardo as well! Great guy and very professional. I've done 2 rounds with him totalling 21 ml over the last 6 months. His hybrid mix with Radiesse & Revanesse seems like the best of both worlds. Firmness and a natural feel measuring 7' girth with 7" erect length. Looking forward to round 3.

First and foremost, my proclamations on the matter come from a multitude of respected physicians with considerably more authority on the subject, so these are not simply my own assumptions.

Secondly, Dr. Loria is a career liar. You have no idea how many times he changed up his vocabulary with respect to his filler and how quickly he'd change subjects. I've joined in on calls, and I've had members join in on conference calls, and he would just toss around gibberish assuming us (the "ignorant") would take his word for it. He would even throw around terms like "PMMA" and "Collagen production" and wouldn't even mention silicone at first. He's so evasive in fact, that there is a former patient on a separate PE forum who shared a story when in the hospital for his penis condition, that Loria refused to give the physicians information on what was injected. Can you believe that? This patient facing infection that could lead to sepsis, and Loria didn't have even the morality to do the right thing for his own patient because he's clearly got something to hide. I really try my hardest to refrain from name-calling as it is not befitting of an Administrator of a site discussing serious topics, but that was such a scumbag move on Loria's part and tells me everything I need to know about who he really is.

When I brought up him using the term "Cosmetic Surgeon," it wasn't meant to say that you need to be a surgeon to perform these procedures, it was to say he was lying about his medical background because he's in-fact NOT a surgeon in any capacity.

Yes, I received an email from his marketing rep, not himself obviously. He's too proud and stubborn to ever make the first move. I've defended Sponsors and Non-Sponsors alike. I'm open to new Sponsors. Ask yourself why I won't accept Loria? Why not take his money? Ask yourself why the vast majority of penis enlargement doctors don't include silicone oil as a filler option when they can use Silikon100 off-label? Do you really truly believe this Hair Restoration "specialist" has figured out what career-accomplished surgeons and urologists haven't?

Having followed the scene since 2005 and learned the nuances of the penis and these procedures from the Doctors themselves sort of actually does amount to the same kind of "credits" you'd need to earn to have some above-average understanding of the topic matter -- more so than a random "nurse" I'd contend. I've spent countless hours reading not only posts, but private messages, emails, and other modes of communication for well over a decade with both patients and Doctors (some of which were non-Sponsors). I've studied sexual medicine to the extent that I have a good understanding of anatomy and some of the physiologies involved, especially as it pertains to penis enlargement. Sure, I'm not a medical professional, but I do see myself as the most qualified Patient Educator there is (on matters of penis enlargement). Either way, my claims are made on the information provided to me by those who are in the know, and many of them.

Clearly your schooling has not made you any smarter on making good decisions in this respect, and I'm afraid not even a Doctorate will solve your inability to see the patterns of deception -- but I get it, the last thing you want to think about is having a ticking timebomb in your penis, so you have to double down on defending your poorly made decision by reassuring yourself that because you've had some medical training, that you're incapable of being scammed. You know, no one likes being scammed, it's a tough pill to swallow as a grown adult. Besides, an ICU Nurse? I seldom "LOL" on this forum but I know a few personally (ICU in fact), and I assure you they wouldn't have a damn clue about the nuances of penis enlargement, so kick rocks with that nonsense please.

Dr. Elist has been performing his botcheries circa 2009, and we all know how terrible his procedure is. Dr. Loria's patient count doesn't give him any points, all it tells me is that he's a sociopath for cash.

Yes, many of the Doctors I know of actually show the box, or at the very least, will have the box and serial number sticker per request.

You do realize that until he has FDA clearance, he's injecting you illegally, right?

Do you actually believe he changes the ratios of his filler ingredients per patient on the day of the procedure? Right there and then in his lab by just examining your penis? I mean that seems rather tedious, inefficient, and costly. Did you have to wait a while before he came into the room with the syringes? Seems bizarre if you ask me. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager a pretty penny he has a set ratio premade ready to go, largely that of silicone oil that is imported illegally in order to give him absurd profit margins. Last I checked, Silikon1000 was the 2nd most expensive filler, only behind Bellafill (PMMA), and looking at some price lists right now, may have exceeded that of Bellafill. To pump the kind of volumes you require with this type of filler (60cc's +) and keep his pricing market-competitive, I'm having a hard time believing he's using anything legally. But you just haven't asked yourself those kind of questions, have you? I'm trying to do you a favor here, if you can only see it.

What you ultimately fail to see is that this site promotes the efficacious methods of phalloplasty based on its history, the science/medicine behind it, and patient feedback. The PhalloBoards is the only site, community, and validated source (via physician education & endorsement) that has followed this niche topic, and has done so for 13 years. It isn't bias, it's reality. If it were bias, why would I provide my readership with different options like Alloderm, Surgimend, Ellanse, Hyaluronic Acid, Radiesse, PMMA (Bellafill AND Linnea Safe), Renuva, Fat Transfer, and so on? PRP and exosomes? Different regions, states, different countries? Do you think some of my Sponsors were thrilled that P-Long came along? Well, it was an alternative to phalloplasty for guys who like to do PE exercises. By encouraging healthy competition, I play a role in lowering market costs and incentivizing innovation among the leaders in phalloplasty. I have weekly/monthly calls and can't wait for them to share some advances made that I'm not at liberty to speak of at present time (because they need to be fully tested). I'm clearly taking the sides of methods I know don't possess unacceptable levels of risk based on a knowledge that you simply do not have -- if that's bias, fine, I'll concede that much. And yes, all elective procedures are not without risk, but there is a line that when crossed, becomes unacceptable.

If this wasn't an open free flow of information, wouldn't I have simply deleted your posts and banned you? If you want to continue insulting this forum and its community, then you can go take a hike. We've been very receptive to your experience(s), but I've stated on innumerable occasions that this site is a No-Silicone-Zone, and so whenever the procedure itself is promoted or recommended, I've made it a forum policy to provide the necessary information to many newcomers who are simply unaware. If hypothetically PMMA (known to be non-carcinogenic) were to somehow have a 100% direct causality with cancer, not only would most ethical Doctors discontinue its use, but those who choose not to would be admonished and black-listed.

I've seen enough emails of Loria patients begging for assistance, and Doctors telling me the nightmares they've seen fixing his garbage-excuse for work. This is also true for the Penuma (Elist implant). However, I just don't get that level of scary reporting from the aforementioned procedures I support (like HA and PMMA and so on). Those mostly deal with aesthetic issues that never impact the health and/or function of the penis.

Oof, the kind of skin grafts required to fix a Loria procedure gone wrong, or the severity of late stage granulomas with something so synthetic, or migration into other parts of the body... I know of a forum veteran who I won't mention that is experiencing illness that may be related to silicone oil according to some back-channel sources, if I get confirmation that the diagnosis is confirmed (or get him willing to acknowledge it here), I will.

Lastly, you told me you didn't want to argue, and I made clear my post was a PSA in response to what may have been an intentional or unintentional promotion of this procedure (citing patents give people the impression of legitimacy), and it wasn't necessarily to argue with you. I also asked in my last post that we carry on, because as you said yourself, you wish not to argue. Everything I've said has been factual, honest, and informed. The only thing I said that I can't prove (but believe the evidence is strongly in favor of) is my belief that he sources/imports silicone illegally because there is no way he's charging those prices for the amount of volume being injected, even in bulk. Everything else were facts, plain and simple.

Based on your insistence that there are no more arguments, I am politely asking everyone please resume the topic at hand.

Skeptical_One wrote:

EricPig wrote: @Odouble
Yeah no arguing please. Been there and I agree to disagree lol. I’m a Loria patient. He has his own patented filler with the main ingredient being Silikon 1000.

And yeah dude. She loves it! Trust me. They stretch.

His patent is a proprietary filler non-FDA approved. He's fucked over almost as many men as Dr. Elist. You're literally playing with fire by continuing to see a Doctor who was an overweight nutritionist, who then made his money on Hair Restoration despite balding, and now injects you with things that may or may not be legal. Dr. Loria is a scam and a disgrace to medicine.

You can choose to do what you do, but with the overwhelming advice of the only community that genuinely vets the validity & efficacy of these procedures, choose to ignore or carry on.

I turned down a sizeable amount of revenue when they approached me for Sponsorship. The man is a scourge and plague to this field of cosmetic medicine. The proverbial "sleazy car salesman" of penis enlargement.

Administrative Addition: Between Emails, Private Messages, and conversations with both Sponsors and non-Sponsors alike, I know of what goes on behind the scenes (and it pisses me off these patients won't come forward, and makes me convinced they sign off social media waivers), and he's actually regarded as worse than Dr. Elist, because at least Dr. Elist is a Urologist. Dr. Loria isn't qualified in the least.

The DECEPTION of silicone oil is that it is permanent and often yields aesthetic results. BUT ASK YOUR SELF JUST ONCE - if this product is available to every other credible Phallo-Doc off-label, why wouldn't they use it?

Silikon1000 made clear that this is not made for high volume and should be applied superficially via micro-droplet. I actually no longer believe Loria (from now on I refuse to honor the "Dr." prefix) uses Silikon1000, even if he shows you the box. You know the kind of profit margins you make by importing Chinese silicone oil and throwing around the word "collagen" to convince those who don't know any better that it's like PMMA? I mean, he makes less money if he offers HA, Renuva, Radiesse, or PMMA. He's playing with fire if he's creating a non-FDA approved substance in some Florida lab, if you wish to stay this reckless, by all means.

@Skeptical_One

Hey man I understand your stance and you have posted this before on my thread. I’m not going to argue anymore and I’d appreciate it if you would stop.

EricPig wrote: @Odouble
Yeah no arguing please. Been there and I agree to disagree lol. I’m a Loria patient. He has his own patented filler with the main ingredient being Silikon 1000.

And yeah dude. She loves it! Trust me. They stretch.

His patent is a proprietary filler non-FDA approved. He's fucked over almost as many men as Dr. Elist. You're literally playing with fire by continuing to see a Doctor who was an overweight nutritionist, who then made his money on Hair Restoration despite balding, and now injects you with things that may or may not be legal. Dr. Loria is a scam and a disgrace to medicine.

You can choose to do what you do, but with the overwhelming advice of the only community that genuinely vets the validity & efficacy of these procedures, choose to ignore or carry on.

I turned down a sizeable amount of revenue when they approached me for Sponsorship. The man is a scourge and plague to this field of cosmetic medicine. The proverbial "sleazy car salesman" of penis enlargement.

Administrative Addition: Between Emails, Private Messages, and conversations with both Sponsors and non-Sponsors alike, I know of what goes on behind the scenes (and it pisses me off these patients won't come forward, and makes me convinced they sign off social media waivers), and he's actually regarded as worse than Dr. Elist, because at least Dr. Elist is a Urologist. Dr. Loria isn't qualified in the least.

The DECEPTION of silicone oil is that it is permanent and often yields aesthetic results. BUT ASK YOUR SELF JUST ONCE - if this product is available to every other credible Phallo-Doc off-label, why wouldn't they use it?

Silikon1000 made clear that this is not made for high volume and should be applied superficially via micro-droplet. I actually no longer believe Loria (from now on I refuse to honor the "Dr." prefix) uses Silikon1000, even if he shows you the box. You know the kind of profit margins you make by importing Chinese silicone oil and throwing around the word "collagen" to convince those who don't know any better that it's like PMMA? I mean, he makes less money if he offers HA, Renuva, Radiesse, or PMMA. He's potentially playing with fire if he's creating a non-FDA approved substance in some Florida lab, if you wish to stay this reckless, by all means.

Exactly which Revanesse product?

I find it reasonably firm. It's not hard and it's not ultra soft. I was worried I'd find HA too squishy but so far it seems fine. But that might also be because it's mingling with PMMA. I'll probably get a blend of Revanesse and Radiesse for my next fill to keep things firm.

For context I have over 40 cc of PMMA and around 25 cc of Revanesse Ultra on top of that

Haven't done an update in awhile and quite a lot has happened so figured I should for any one interested. Also haven't looked at this thread in ages so seeing my starting point is kind of wild.

Since my initial two sessions of PMMA at Avanti I changed course and have gotten HA added in addition. At first this was kind of a gamble in a way but now there are practitioners blending the two, adding HA after, etc. And I've had zero issues so I'm happy.

The first clinic I went to in Toronto was good. I believe I mentioned it here. Topical numbing only, one injection site. Small amounts at a time and he mostly places on top of the shaft, similar to most HA injectors here for some reason. I think it's to give it that visual pop flaccid. But it doesn't really uniformly enlarge the shaft. Over multiple visits I'd say total volume from him was about 12-15 syringes give or take. I should post pics of that, I had more of a humped dick, fat on top.

Enter the most recent practitioner. This is a fully honest endorsement... With how I am feeling now, I legitimately wish this existed earlier or had dealt with longer. The clinic is Leonardo Medical in Toronto. He lists his processes in detail on his site. Key features being, topical numbing, then injected numbing, additional numbing if you feel anything, Trimix injection to induce erection as he prefers to inject erect to sculpt, two injection sites, one on each side, uses a type of green light that displays veins and arteries and the cannula like a Christmas tree lighting up. For new patients he also use a hybrid blend of HA and Radiesse. Which would have been my preference. To be cautious this session last Monday was done using only Revanesse Ultra HA. He was more open to using his hybrid in future sessions since I have a uniform layer of HA now. He was leery of aggravating the PMMA with Radiesse as the manufacturer strongly advised against using it. I think it's a liability thing. Anyway, he is fantastic. Not only do I like him personally, he's a fantastic injector, his process seems refined, and was an all around great experience. I would 100% recommend him (and already have lol).

This week I received 10 1.2 ml syringes of Revanesse. Based on past HA I'm at the point of low, being the swelling is gone and it hasn't soaked up water and expanded yet. I'm thrilled. He did have to punch around the PMMA fairly aggressively, hence the bruising where no HA was yet. Zero pain aside from the odd jolt during which he numbed.

Yeah. It's big. Lol. I haven't full on measured myself yet and will wait until I hit a couple weeks out but it's well over 7" in girth at its widest point. Do plan on returning. I'm married, this for our enjoyment lol.

That's fine, I'd rather not go somewhere that's run by a guy who essentially tries to scare people from getting PMMA. And who is also giving out PMMA misinformation. Below is a review of a video featuring William Moore, Phallofill's founder. It's a video posted on their website titled, "Girth Enhancement 101: Understanding the basics with live AMA".

The title sounds like you're going to get a great education on the basics of phalloplasty. But instead, the video is more of a worship session of the apparent god filler that is hyaluronic acid. It's main purpose is to prop up HA in order to increase Phallofill's client base. They are trying to sell the clinic. I get that. The video is on their website. But instead of simply praising and talking about the benefits of HA vs other permanent or semi-permanent options, Moore takes it to another level by deliberately giving misleading information about other fillers to the public. This doesn't make Moore look good. Your credibility goes down when you start enacting obvious mischaracterizations and implying falsehoods.

Moore says, in regards to PMMA, "This is basically plexiglass. PMMA is basically melted down to create plexiglass...it was originally created in the 1930s and it was called 'bone cement'...it's not made to be a dermal filler, it's being used off label as dermal filler in my opinion."

No, it's not "basically plexiglass". That's a horrible, misleading description of today's PMMA. Moore is intentionally trying to steer his patients away from this filler option which has been proven to be safe in the human body. He fails to mention that it has been FDA approved as a dermal filler. He further describes PMMA as 'acrylic beads' instead of microspheres.

I think what he meant to say is that PMMA wasn't created to be a dermal filler. Because obviously it is being made as a dermal filler and it's FDA approved to be one in the face. In his opinion, it's being used "off-label". So in Dr. Moore's opinion, the FDA has approved Bellafill to be used off-label in the face meaning it has an intended use somewhere else in the body? That's not true. His opinion that's it's being used off-label is simply wrong. Quite a bold opinion. What's ironic is that, to my knowledge, not one dermal filler brand has said that phalloplasty is one of their intended uses. Thus, he's using HA off-label in the penis.

He said, "More times than not, it's not done correctly." I'd like to see him say this Dr. Casavantes'. Quite the shot taken here and there are several shots taken at Dr. C throughout. So anyone thinking about going to Avanti or Dr. Rupeka, most likely it won't be done correctly according to Dr. Moore. This is interesting because I'm not sure how many penises he's actually seen from Avanti, Dr. Rupeka or the other other providers of PMMA for the penis.

Not once does he mention PMMA builds your own collagen, thus making it sound like it's the 'plexiglass' or the 'beads' that is giving you all the girth.

What's also interesting is that Moore, when describing the different types of fillers to his patients, leaves out Ellanse as an option.

He says, "There's four (fillers used in the penis), there's hyaluronic acid, liquid silicon, PMMA, and occasionally we see some Radiesse but that's all of them."

That's not all of them. Someone only relying on this 101 course would have no idea that PCL, aka Ellanse, exists. He also doesn't mention the existence of hybrid fillers.

He didn't list only FDA cleared fillers because he mentions liquid silicon. He mentions silicon isn't FDA cleared and recommends not using it for reasons talked about on this board and elsewhere for years. So the fact that Ellanse isn't FDA cleared doesn't really make sense when trying to come up with a reason why he didn't mention it.

After he makes PMMA sound horrible, he then immediately mentions Radiesse and says, "that is a dermal filler that IS FDA cleared...", implying that PMMA isn't. But PMMa is cleared in the face as we know. How can you rely on someone that is giving information out like this? Either he doesn't know PMMA is FDA cleared or he is purposely hiding that fact.

Moore says, "If you have a complication and something moves with a permanent filler, you have to go through a de-gloving process."

This isn't true. If you want it removed you have to go through with it. But you don't have to remove it. You can fix irregularities in other ways. Moore also gives way too much credit to the reversibility of HA, saying that you can inject the enzyme and go "right back to the way that you were before you started the procedure". A more accurate explanation would be that this is ideally what happens. But we all know it doesn't always work out that way. It's not like the HA breaks down perfectly every time.

He again implies PMMA is not FDA cleared and also acknowledges 30% or 10% mixtures, completely ignoring the use of 20% in the US.

This is obviously an informational video that's designed to serve Phallofill and to not give accurate information on the different types of dermal fillers. Again, I don't blame them for trying to make themselves and HA look good to a certain extent. I just don't think it's right to take advantage of uneducated clients. This forum should act as a check for these clinics. I personally think they should consider our advice as to how they should approach consumers.

Lastly, no where on their website do they mention the types of HA they use. I do not get this. It's ironic because in the video they repeatedly emphasize the importance of knowing what you're injecting into your penis. So you'd think that conveying what HA they're using clearly to potential customers would be of high importance but for some reason it's like a big secret. Phallofill isn't the only office that does this.

Thanks for answering all the questions Dr Tsay!

How often would you say a top off after a FT is needed? 50% of the time? A FT is something I would be interested in down the road, and there isn't much information available from my googling and searching these forums even.

I’m also interested in Renuva, and currently am leaning more toward that.

My concerns are that the penis is an area that doesn’t have natural fat cells, thus why a lot of fat transfers come out uneven. So I know you said that you would recommend a FT first and top off with Renuva, but would a FT’s success be higher if you started with Renuva to introduce a foundation of fat cells for the fat from the FT to plug into?

Thanks for your time Dr Tsay!

jrod wrote: Has anyone who had Ellanse 3-4 years ago seen any loss of girth? I haven't heard of a single report.

They actually had 4 Versions of Ellanse and ended up getting rid of their shorter-length (I think it was 1-Year & 2-Year) versions because too many patients were reporting filler retention well beyond the manufacturer's projection. This might sound great if you have it in your penis, but not so much if you have it in your face, and as you age, the filler remains, and while maybe not noticeable to most, definitely noticeable to the patient who was already compelled to inject facial fillers in the first place.

The thinking right now is all about the collagen. There are collagen of the skin, joints, bone marrow, and many other places, it's really remarkable how common (and essential) collagen is to our bodies. Well (and don't cite this, I'm merely relaying musings of some Doctors and the Manufacturer as nothing has been clinically set in stone, at least that I know of), it appears the same kind of collagen produced with PMMA seems to be the same kind of collagen made with Ellanse. The idea was that the PCL particles in Ellanse would eventually break down but would last a bit longer than similar collagen-inducing particles like the ones found in Radiesse, making it a more attractive alternative for those who preferred longer lasting alternatives.

It seems as though the PCL may have very well dissipated, but that PMMA-type collagen in that kind of dense abundance lasts considerably longer, in spite of the absence of the PCL. This is a "shrug the shoulder" moment because well, Ellanse hasn't been around for a while, heck it hasn't even cleared FDA Approval yet (no doubt uncertainties about its longevity probably drags the process). I should stress that I don't think that designates it as dangerous, and I'd go as far as saying its safety profile ought to be on par with PMMA since they effectively work on the same mechanism: biocompatible microspheres suspended in some kind of gel carrier injected into a layer of skin in order to increase volume; only difference is that the PCL eventually gets removed whereas the PMMA particles stay with you forever.

It is presently unknown how long it takes for this amount of concentration of PMMA-like collagen will take to lose size. If you really think about it, Ellanse was made for the face, we're talking like maybe 3-4 cc's at most? The penis contains easily 10x that over the course of 1-3 sessions, which means there is a richer abundance of elastin, connective tissue, and vascularity, likely keeping the collagen going. In other words, this is uncharted territory, although fortunately there is nothing to indicate there is anything to be concerned about, at least not much different from most other fillers. Heck, for penis guys, it's awesome news in my opinion, but if you were a facial patient and got it with the promise of 1-2 years, yea... you have a right to be upset.

In a nutshell, at least as far as I know, it should be regarded as a LONG LONG TERM filler at present time. I'll reach out to my Ellanse providers and see if I can find out any updates. I'm also finding varying degrees of half-life's of different collagen types and they all appear to be rather long (many years), hopefully I can get this answered from an Ellanse provider as well.

Rybrad wrote: 1. This is very expensive and having to top up every 6 months to a year would not be financially attainable for me. However, if I had to top up every 18 months to 2 years, that is doable for me. I was always under the assumption that HA lasted 6 months to a year, but Phallofill is making longer lasting claims. What is your opinion?

The dissipation of temporary fillers like Hyaluronic Acid (HA) or Radiesse seems largely determined by your own body's rate of breaking down and removing foreign substances. Our bodies all seem to vary in rates of speed when it comes to different things. Think how some people can grow really long hair really fast while others would have to commit to years to achieve the same length. Not all processes & physiologies are equal.. There may be other factors at play as well, but in the end you really won't know the extent of retention until you actually get it done. I have absolutely heard of verified 2 year retentions and on the flip side, as low as 6 months.

That said, you have to keep something in mind which may alleviate the cost burden: Typically when people get top-offs, they are injecting less volume, and so in theory you should be paying less than the original price (assuming you are injecting considerably less volume the 2nd time around). Think of this example: after about 18 months you are at a 50% loss of your original HA gains. At this time, if you were to go in for a top-off, you won't need nearly the same volume to reach the size you were the first time around, which would presumably be cheaper. I won't speak for PhalloFILL because despite all the other (non-Dallas) Clinics being affiliated with the company name, they are in-fact independent as a practice & business. You'll have to inquire with whichever location you plan on visiting regarding top-off rates (flat-rate pricing vs price-per-volume injected).

I also want to stress how reasonable rates have become despite inflation + being a very specialized niche & uncommon procedure. In the 90's and 2000's, $15,000 was a steal of a price with a strong forecast of depressing complications. I think at present time, my most expensive FILLER Sponsor is around $10,000, and that's largely due to overhead as he operates out of some of the most expensive real estate in the country and also happens to be highly credentialed. More importantly, think about the confidence-per-dollar you get with a fatter cock versus a coveted sports car. While I'm sure some of you have your own motivations, the vast majority of guys want the big dick no less than they want the Porsche, except now we live in a time where the big dick amounts to 5% of the cost of a luxury/sports car with comparable effect. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy promoting healthy competition amongst my Sponsors (while representing them fairly to the best of my ability), which in turn helps keep costs reasonable. I try to encourage seasonal promotions and such to ensure readership here can grab at whatever they can take off the top. At present time, PhalloBoard Members have a 5% Discount with Androfill (Ellanse & HA - United Kingdom) and a 10% Off any Male Enhancement Services from Jiva Med Spa (Which includes Bellafill PMMA). Find their contact info by clicking here and mention the PhalloBoards member discount prior or during booking.

Regardless of all of that, let us not forget that this is an aesthetic elective medical procedure that are performed by maybe 20-25 practitioners in the North America worth trusting your penis with (yes that includes some non-Sponsors)... this by very definition makes it a luxury... but perhaps the most inexpensive luxury for men all things considered.

Rybrad wrote: 2. How spongy does it feel? Does it feel like your natural penis, or is there an obvious softness to it that is easily discernable? I'd like to maintain stiff erections and not have a squishy feeling when hard?

This comes up a lot, and I think it has to do with earlier iterations of HA. As some of you may or may not know, HA is naturally created in the body (one of a few reasons it has such a strong safety profile), and medical manufacturers learned that they can make it in the lab through a technique called cross-linking. Older iterations of HA were used for soft areas (face, etc) and it wasn't until more recently that cosmetic medicine had expanded its use all over the body. Now there are cross-linked iterations much more robust and compatible for use in the penis.

This explains why some of the more recent HA reviews (either in a Progress Report or Directory Rating) have been generally positive. What has made PhalloFILL so popular so quickly is that they really put in the work to find the right brand of HA that would provide both the best kind of retention, and more importantly, "feel & naturalness."

It should also be noted that you don't want the penis to be too hard much like you wouldn't want it to be too soft. Even an erect penis has some "give" when pressed against the skin. I've been to an Adult Novelty store, and that's when I noticed that ZERO of the dildos (which are meant to mimic an actual penis) were ever as hard as vibrators (which are meant to provide stimulation as an electrical device).

Last advice here regarding the "feel" of HA. If you are the type that is hyper-critical then I'd strongly recommend being circumcised and starting with low-to-medium volumes. This way if you didn't like it, it's easy to manage and will eventually dissipate. If you can live with potential imperfections that only you will notice, then go with whatever the practitioner recommends. And by the way, the potential imperfections wasn't a knock on HA, all fillers have a degree of unpredictability, now matter how good the doctor or filler is.

Rybrad wrote: 3. They have locations all over the US and even one in my city, but I want to go with the practitioner with the most experience. Would this be the Dallas location?

So part of the affiliation is that PhalloFILL provided training (among other things) to these would-be affiliates, and so they are all in theory qualified to do a modest (or even great) job. That said, for me it would be Dallas 100%. They are the ACTUAL FOUNDERS AND COMPANY of PhalloFILL and they've also had a pretty good reputation with keeping patients satisfied (they have the most ratings in the Directory Listing section of this site).

However, if budgeting and logistics is of notable importance, then call your closest PhalloFILL Office, many of them being Urology practices, more than equipped and familiar with penile health & enhancement.

That would be interesting! I haven't heard of it myself. In our practice, we often will mix fillers to create a hybrid that provides the best of both worlds - the immediate bulking of HA and the collagen stimulating function of a biostimulatory filler like sculptra or radiesse.

This will be a pretty niched question so I might not even get an answer.

I know some have floated the thought of Ellanse being used after PMMA and vice versa. I also know any combination of anything could have unintended results. Does any one see any reason that a shorter term stimulatory filler like Radiesse wouldn't play nice with existing PMMA?

To give background on why I'm asking. I have existing PMMA and had no issues. I've since had HA added, with no issues.

I know that previously we all encouraged no mixing, but there are multiple providers now doing this. For example, some are using Bellafill and HA in tandem. Some are using a more typical HA with Radiesse. Some are using only one of the above. There's a lot going on out there now.

I know a lot of American and Canadian practitioners are very leery of existing PMMA because many of them either had bad experiences themselves or saw it happen with Bellafills predecessor years ago. I've never seen any granuloma, abscess, etc issues with Linnea patients (or frankly now with current Bella or any quality providers using it correctly). Some view PMMA as a sleeping dragon you don't want to disturb. But others who have had experience with Bella or Linnea are fine with adding more pmma or using HA in addition to it.

This is kind of all over the place but I'm basically asking for any real experiences with any type of combination fillers.