TOPIC: LONG TERM PMMA SIDE EFFECTS

Read the posts by fran_berlin who had pmma in 2007 and had it removed in 2012. He said this:


\"\"The dermatologist and the surgeon, before the operation, both told me it seems it is something not bad (no cancer) but after the analysis from the laboratory from the tissue, the surgeon told me the tissue had characterictics towards what it known to be a possibility to be develop as a cancer
but after he told not to worry\"\"


The collagen growth is an immune response to a foreign body (the implant). The collagen forms a capsule and fibrosis in an attempt to make a wall between the foreign body and the pmma. No one knows what that will do to the body after 5 or more years. See www.journalofdst.org/Journal/pdf/Septemb...OL-2-5-SYM3-WARD.pdf

Of course Wade has not seen blood flow issues. He has not seen any cases more than 3 or 4 years old. When complications occur, guys are not flying back to TJ. They see serious we\'ll-trained first world doctors for treatment.

Too many guys on this board think that the friendliness of Dr C and staff is a substitute for professional judgment. Dr C shows poor professional judgment. ( I don\'t question he is skillful with a cannula but that is not the exercise of good judgment in using pmma) He gives guys 30% pmma to meet their wishes rather than assessing their safety.he does this despite his own professional doubts. He modifies techniques by trial and error. Think about that. He is totally out of step with the rest of the medical community...literally thousands of doctors. Dr C has a history of using all kinds of injectable products that he later abandons. He\'s reckless.

Musky wrote: When complications occur, guys are not flying back to TJ. They see serious we\'ll-trained first world doctors for treatment. Too many guys on this board think that the friendliness of Dr C and staff is a substitute for professional judgment. Dr C shows poor professional judgment. ( I don\'t question he is skillful with a cannula but that is not the exercise of good judgment in using PMMA) He gives guys 30% PMMA to meet their wishes rather than assessing their safety.he does this despite his own professional doubts. He modifies techniques by trial and error. Think about that. He is totally out of step with the rest of the medical community...literally thousands of doctors. Dr C has a history of using all kinds of injectable products that he later abandons. He\'s reckless.

I agree with parts of this, but not all.

If you\'d had experience with PE related problem, you\'d be less enthusiastic about \"serious well trained first world doctors.\" They are very rarely interested in investigating these type of things and would much rather simply cut things out. Why go to the effort of researching a product and take the risk of giving the wrong advice or diagnosis, when it is much easier to simply cut it out? It doesn\'t matter where you go in the world, I bet as long as the Dr isn\'t responsible for the initial problem, he\'ll feel totally justified in doing surgery and expect the patient to simply accept the consequences that come with it.

In my personal opinion I agree that Dr C shows poor professional judgement at times.

Modifying technique by trial and error is totally normal, so this is an unfair criticism. However, I wish he would be much more conservative in how he does this and not charge the full amount, as clearly he hasn\'t got his procedure to where he wants it to be yet. I bet with a few months of conservative experimentation and much better tracking of results, he could start to get much more consistent results.

He\'s not way out of step with the rest of the medical community. In countries where a patent for PMMA isn\'t held, it\'s a very popular procedure. To think that it wouldn\'t be used routinely in America if it wasn\'t for Artefil is naive.

He doesn\'t have a history of abandoning all kinds of injectable products. Why say he does? It sounds like you just made this up. He was one of the Dr\'s who promoted the discontinuation of Bio Alcamid as the complication rates were higher than those shown in the studies. He was using it to treat HIV treatments who had facial wasting. As I understand it, when it became apparent that the complication rates were higher than what had been reported, he was at the forefront of the campaign against the product. But literally thousands of Dr\'s around the world were similarly mislead, including Mr Viel, a well known plastic surgeon here in the UK that is often mentioned on the board.

In my opinion, I kind of also agree that he is reckless. Actually maybe \"reckless\" is over the top, but I do think he isn\'t cautious enough.

@musky this is exactly what the other dr in tj said regarding dr c and the entire PMMA procedure.....however not as blunt.

@musky. what is your background? you seem to have a strong opinion about PMMA in general. are/were you a considering PMMA at one point in time and decided not to based on your findings?

how do you feel about a temporary fillers? You stated \"The collagen growth is an immune response to a foreign body (the implant). The collagen forms a capsule and fibrosis in an attempt to make a wall between the foreign body and the PMMA. No one knows what that will do to the body after 5 or more years.\" Considering this statement, in theory would the body not also form collagen capsules and fibrosis with a temp filler? eventually the temp filler will dissipate and the new collagen formation from the temp filler will stay. no? in theory this seems to be the safest way of Girth enhancement. it may run you 8-10k$ a year but eventually after every year, the new collagen growth from each procedure will yield permanent results. no?

what are your final thoughts/advice about PMMA to prospective customer like myself?

@jmanning

In regards to your last statement, temp fillers will not product any permanent gains. Take for example Radiesse. The new collagen is produced so the body can surround the synthetic microspheres which are made from calcium and something else. The reason it is temporary is because the body can slowly break down, by enzymes, the spheres. As they are broken down, the body will stop producing collagen and will breakdown existing collagen that was produced only to encapsulate the original spheres. That is why the product loses volume in the proceeding months.

Although, there seems to be evidence that some of that collagen will last up to 1-2 years with Radiesse. So there may be longer term results from its use but touch ups will inevitably be required if one wants to maintain the Girth. No permanent gains should be expected.

What I meant is that in all this time he had no complications, even today everything is fine.

@xiaflexed i just read darkstaff post about having his PMMA removed. im thinking that how well ones body reacts to PMMA is on an individual basis. i think im going to actually get PMMA in another part of my body first to see how my body reacts to it. if all goes well thereafter ill take the plunge. till then Ill probably look into the voluma.

Always remember that you can only judge PMMA PE against other forms of PE. From that point of view everything he\'s said about PMMA is true of the other methods and probably to a far greater extent. He recommends Dr Comacho, but he performs FFT and Dermal Grafts. Has the Dr you spoke to seen what these look like 5-10 years down the line? We\'ve got members here such as ripple (FFT) and the seeker (DFG) who can vouch for the fact fact turns fibrotic. We\'ve got loads of members who can vouch for the fact scar tissue forms round silicon and can cause permanent problems. Justave and PMMApossibly can both demonstrate how Belloderm/Alloderm also harden and turns fibrotic, the graft contracts and the penis bends like a banana.

The first thing to remember whenever considering PE is that these procedures have a terrible track record and therefore in the vast majority of cases the best option is to do nothing. If doing nothing isn\'t an option, then you have to judge each option against each other and not against the standards expected in other forms of plastic surgery. From that point of view, despite the concerns people like the Mexican Dr might have, in my opinion, PMMA is still probably going to prove to be the best option for most people.

For me personally, I don\'t feel comfortable committing to PMMA yet and have ruled out every surgical option. So like your Dr suggests, I\'m looking at temporary solutions like Voluma. When i considered self injection Voluma was very tempting.

Temporary fillers seem like a safer option.manual stretching is the safest option.i am seriously considering getting my PMMA removed when i can afford it.seems like i\'ve had an allergic reaction to it/bad foreign body response.It is slowly getting worse.now im getting constant urethral pain/black dots/discolouration on the head.I am trying to cope with the pain/irritation, but just want it gone.Some peoples bodies don\'t seem to respond well to the PMMA.

Hans, I hope that is not the case! But if you have not already done it, post lots of pictures, some very good advice and opinions from some of our members might be able to help!

@hoodle10- your considering injecting voluma yourself?!!!! wow thats brave... whats stopping you?

@Hans- thanks for your feedback hans. sorry to hear that your experiencing such bad
side effects. How long has it been since your first PMMA procedure? did you go to dr
casavanties? i know i woman that had injections for buttocks enhancements and she
kept getting sick because her body was rejecting the silicon. she eventually had to have
the silicon painstakingly removed. Im hoping mustang, gsxr, & some other senior members
can chime in on this discussion....

Many HIV patients have had PMMA injected in their bodies many years ago, and as far as I know (I do not proclaim to have read everything about these cases but enough to conclude there were no long term bad effects with HIV patients) I do not recall any bad side effects. These patients had PMMA injected all over their bodies and in the face, for years now. Dr C had worked in that field for about 8-10 years if I remember correctly. I am not defending Dr C, although I like his work, but I am stating what, I know and of course I could be wrong.

So, when your Mexican Dr tells you that PMMA will show bad side effects after 5-4 years, I would like to ask him to direct you and us as to where his data comes from so we can educate ourselves.

Sure, we do not have long term PMMA in the penis data right now, but so far the results have been better than other forms of PE, this is my opinion of course.

I talked to Dr. Camacho in TJ about a lig cut and his claims of an Inch or more increase in Erect state did not sit well with me so I chose not to go to him.

I do wish all the guys who had PMMA in their penis, including me of course, the best and I hope statements like that from this Mexican Dr will prove to be incorrect and will not cause fear, concerns and worry among us...

Well we have a member here who has had PMMA injected in larger ammounts over 2 decades ago and had, until today no complications at all. The product quality and technique are essential. There are many PMMA complications f. ex. in Brazil as there are many cheap unclean PMMA brands/copies

whos is the member who had it done for 2 decades until today?

@Mustang2020 just for the record mustang I, in no way shape or form want to discourage or instill fear in anyone that is considering PMMA. I just wanted some opinions as I myself personally would like to move forward with Dr C. Ive already spoken to wade and ran this information from said DR past him... I know you\'ve had PMMA for quite some time now. how long exactly has it been since your first procedure? btw appreciate your opinion..

@olafspo & SpankAss who are you referring to that had the procedure 2 decades ago? what complications is he experiencing? 20 years is a long time. i wonder what kind of PMMA they used? im sure his complications are obviously not from technique as according to you, hes had it for 20 years with no complications until recently. must be the brand of PMMA. id like to know the type of PMMA and how it compares to the new PMMA that dr c uses.

Juvederm voluma just got FDA approval in the USA (unanimously) so it\'ll be available for regular facial use here soon...and I think the approval signals that it\'s a pretty good filler (at least in the face). European before & after pics look great.

HIV patients have different reactions to filler. Sculptra was originally intended for them, and it worked fine. When the same dose and concentration was given to people with normal immune systems, there were more problems. A few doctors have published papers on this issue. The immune system is incredibly complicated - sometimes someone w/ HIV can overreact which sounds paradoxical...and biofilm infections are more prevalent with HIV- patients (but there are more hiv- patients than +)

This is an interesting article from a well known filler doc (he\'s not a PMMA fan though btw):

www.huffingtonpost.com/arnold-william-kl...ollies_b_410987.html