TOPIC: LONG TERM PMMA SIDE EFFECTS

What\'s the reason for injecting things into your penis. I don\'t get it an it seems crazy to me.

Read the posts by fran_berlin who had pmma in 2007 and had it removed in 2012. He said this:


\"\"The dermatologist and the surgeon, before the operation, both told me it seems it is something not bad (no cancer) but after the analysis from the laboratory from the tissue, the surgeon told me the tissue had characterictics towards what it known to be a possibility to be develop as a cancer
but after he told not to worry\"\"


The collagen growth is an immune response to a foreign body (the implant). The collagen forms a capsule and fibrosis in an attempt to make a wall between the foreign body and the pmma. No one knows what that will do to the body after 5 or more years. See www.journalofdst.org/Journal/pdf/Septemb...OL-2-5-SYM3-WARD.pdf

Of course Wade has not seen blood flow issues. He has not seen any cases more than 3 or 4 years old. When complications occur, guys are not flying back to TJ. They see serious we\'ll-trained first world doctors for treatment.

Too many guys on this board think that the friendliness of Dr C and staff is a substitute for professional judgment. Dr C shows poor professional judgment. ( I don\'t question he is skillful with a cannula but that is not the exercise of good judgment in using pmma) He gives guys 30% pmma to meet their wishes rather than assessing their safety.he does this despite his own professional doubts. He modifies techniques by trial and error. Think about that. He is totally out of step with the rest of the medical community...literally thousands of doctors. Dr C has a history of using all kinds of injectable products that he later abandons. He\'s reckless.

Musky wrote: When complications occur, guys are not flying back to TJ. They see serious we\'ll-trained first world doctors for treatment. Too many guys on this board think that the friendliness of Dr C and staff is a substitute for professional judgment. Dr C shows poor professional judgment. ( I don\'t question he is skillful with a cannula but that is not the exercise of good judgment in using PMMA) He gives guys 30% PMMA to meet their wishes rather than assessing their safety.he does this despite his own professional doubts. He modifies techniques by trial and error. Think about that. He is totally out of step with the rest of the medical community...literally thousands of doctors. Dr C has a history of using all kinds of injectable products that he later abandons. He\'s reckless.

I agree with parts of this, but not all.

If you\'d had experience with PE related problem, you\'d be less enthusiastic about \"serious well trained first world doctors.\" They are very rarely interested in investigating these type of things and would much rather simply cut things out. Why go to the effort of researching a product and take the risk of giving the wrong advice or diagnosis, when it is much easier to simply cut it out? It doesn\'t matter where you go in the world, I bet as long as the Dr isn\'t responsible for the initial problem, he\'ll feel totally justified in doing surgery and expect the patient to simply accept the consequences that come with it.

In my personal opinion I agree that Dr C shows poor professional judgement at times.

Modifying technique by trial and error is totally normal, so this is an unfair criticism. However, I wish he would be much more conservative in how he does this and not charge the full amount, as clearly he hasn\'t got his procedure to where he wants it to be yet. I bet with a few months of conservative experimentation and much better tracking of results, he could start to get much more consistent results.

He\'s not way out of step with the rest of the medical community. In countries where a patent for PMMA isn\'t held, it\'s a very popular procedure. To think that it wouldn\'t be used routinely in America if it wasn\'t for Artefil is naive.

He doesn\'t have a history of abandoning all kinds of injectable products. Why say he does? It sounds like you just made this up. He was one of the Dr\'s who promoted the discontinuation of Bio Alcamid as the complication rates were higher than those shown in the studies. He was using it to treat HIV treatments who had facial wasting. As I understand it, when it became apparent that the complication rates were higher than what had been reported, he was at the forefront of the campaign against the product. But literally thousands of Dr\'s around the world were similarly mislead, including Mr Viel, a well known plastic surgeon here in the UK that is often mentioned on the board.

In my opinion, I kind of also agree that he is reckless. Actually maybe \"reckless\" is over the top, but I do think he isn\'t cautious enough.

@musky this is exactly what the other dr in tj said regarding dr c and the entire PMMA procedure.....however not as blunt.

@musky. what is your background? you seem to have a strong opinion about PMMA in general. are/were you a considering PMMA at one point in time and decided not to based on your findings?

how do you feel about a temporary fillers? You stated \"The collagen growth is an immune response to a foreign body (the implant). The collagen forms a capsule and fibrosis in an attempt to make a wall between the foreign body and the PMMA. No one knows what that will do to the body after 5 or more years.\" Considering this statement, in theory would the body not also form collagen capsules and fibrosis with a temp filler? eventually the temp filler will dissipate and the new collagen formation from the temp filler will stay. no? in theory this seems to be the safest way of Girth enhancement. it may run you 8-10k$ a year but eventually after every year, the new collagen growth from each procedure will yield permanent results. no?

what are your final thoughts/advice about PMMA to prospective customer like myself?

@jmanning

In regards to your last statement, temp fillers will not product any permanent gains. Take for example Radiesse. The new collagen is produced so the body can surround the synthetic microspheres which are made from calcium and something else. The reason it is temporary is because the body can slowly break down, by enzymes, the spheres. As they are broken down, the body will stop producing collagen and will breakdown existing collagen that was produced only to encapsulate the original spheres. That is why the product loses volume in the proceeding months.

Although, there seems to be evidence that some of that collagen will last up to 1-2 years with Radiesse. So there may be longer term results from its use but touch ups will inevitably be required if one wants to maintain the Girth. No permanent gains should be expected.

I do not have a medical background. And I have not had PMMA injected in my penis. I hope this procedure works but the evidence of safety is not there for me yet. There are too many uncertainties i the whole process. First, there is the PMMA. I don\'t know whether the metacrill factory is clean and whether the product is made 100% of a the right size so that phagocytes don\'t move the spheres to other parts of the body. I know that artefill is better but it is prohibitively expensive.So, the first compromise is too accept risk with the metacrill. Then there is the fact that no doctors in Europe, US or Canada do this procedure. That is a lot of doctors who won\'t do it. On the other hand, there is one guy in Mexico and a few more in Brazil. The fact that Dr C lives in San Diego but practices in Mexico tells me all I need to know about his lower ethical standards. The fact that he is a nice guy matters for squat with me. Call me a snob, but I trust the judgment of the first world doctors, the medical associations and the FDA. No reputable medical association supports this procedure. So there is that. The science is incomplete. There are some studies of 1 or 2 cc in the face. But hardly any where guys have 20-60 cc of PMMA and the lower standards of the Mexican medical association. The inflammatory reaction that causes the collagen growth is not well understood. The long term effects are not known at all. Guys in their 20\'s will want to use their penis when they are 45 years old. What will the scar tissue/collagen/fibrosis be like then? Who knows.

So, the product is dodgy, the doctor is dodgy and the science is dodgy. I have a healthy 6x4.5 penis. I would like to make it thicker but I am not going to roll the dice with so many variables. Personally, I would consider a temporary filler. It is undoable with time if it is a problem. Injecting product into my penis based on the cheaper price of PMMA seems crazy to me. I will not trade safety to save a few thousand bucks up front.

I\'m no expert on medical topics, and much of what you say is understandable. But I don\'t necessarily think the first world medical associations are always up to speed. They still can\'t admit that cannabis/marijuana has any medicinal value...I\'ve seen first hand that it has helped for multiple aging family members. I don\'t trust when they (or any branch of the government) tells me something isn\'t good for me. I second guess and try to do my own research.

It is good you are thinking about long term possible PMMA problems. You are right, you think you have a good penis, so why take a chance on it? Temporary fillers may be the best option for you.

There is nothing wrong with a Dr who lives in the US but practices in another country, it is a matter of what he can do best to earn his money.

If one examines some of reputation of some Dr\'s who practice here in the US, such as elist, who are approved by our medical body then one will most likely doubt the efficacy of our US medical system.

The FDA had approved many medicines that turned out to harm or even some patients. So, for me, I actually do not trust the FDA fully (nor our medical system that is biased towards making money, not patient best interest) and I believe that some times they do not do the right thing for us.

Mustang2020 wrote: The FDA had approved many medicines that turned out to harm or even some patients. So, for me, I actually do not trust the FDA fully (nor our medical system that is biased towards making money, not patient best interest) and I believe that some times they do not do the right thing for us.

Exactly...these are the words I couldn\'t come up with last night.

@Musky i totally understand where your coming from?
@Mustang2020 likewise the feeling are mutual.

Im actually somewhere in the middle. @musky. we are the exact same size..
i am going to try the www.penisplus.com for 1 year faithfully. and the take a shot at the temp filler. i dont care about the cost. Ill also try pmma in another part of the body to see if my body is compatible. hopefully within that year more facts can be learned about the long term side regarding pmma.

I\'ve had PMMA face injections in 2008 and 2009 from Dr. C. I dissuade EVERYONE from this treatment. After 7 years here\'s how my face looks:

Wow - that\'s really shocking. Are all of those lumps hardened nodules? Did you contact him / did he say anything about this? Have you been able to contact doctors who will fix this?

How did you look for the first few years - was it always ok and then suddenly this happened?

There is a lady who had silicone in her face and it was fine at first but then all started hardening. She was on the show Botched on E. The doctors said they could not help her, but this upcoming season- she\'s back and they did a promo where they said they WILL help her.. so that should be interesting. I\'m really curious to hear more details about your case because honestly part of my penis already looks like that. And, the other half (those lumps) were all cut out.

Sorry for what happened to your face. It must be devastating. Can you give the forum more information? What was the product? Why did you have this injected in the face? How much product? How long did it look good for before this starting happening? Any pain? Thanks for your reply!

Thank you advocate for your entry. The PMMA product he was injected with was either NewPlastic or Anna Love\'s PMMA. Casavantes formerly worked for Anna Love, I believe before Nurse Wade entered the scene and before he moved to the 2 Towers for his independent practice. Several of Anna Love\'s former clinicians now work for Dr. Casavantes. A former MOD had told me that when he looked up Anna Love, she informed him that she sourced her PMMA from some research lab in Tijuana, beyond that I have no other info.

Until Advocate replies, I\'ve been looking into this.

Back then, Dr. C used the brand called \"Precise\" - read patient discussion here.

Precise product info is here.

Precise has a very bad safety record. Also, the PMMA particle size is twice that of Metacrill or Artefill. It may also have more particle variation but I can\'t find information on that.

Regarding Artefill:

There are other specific advantages to microspheres in this size range. The smaller the microspheres (to the threshold of phagocytosis), the larger their combined surface area in a given volume and the greater the total amount of new collagen deposition. Microspheres with a diameter of 100 ?m, for example, promote the ingrowth of only about 56% connective tissue, whereas microspheres with a mean diameter of 40 ?m promote the ingrowth of about 80% connective tissue [7]. The PMMA/collagen ratio and the 30'50 ?m PMMA microsphere sizing for ArteFill are direct applications of these observations

Also, regarding metacrill in the face:

www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/FacialWasting/Q207274.html

He also used Bio-Alcamid which turned out to be very problematic.

Anyway, there\'s a lot of random info out there - so it would be helpful to hear exactly what happened to you, Advocate. Thanks