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TOPIC: Ellansé poor results

Ellansé poor results 2 weeks 20 hours ago #1308709574

I feel exactly the same about our options in the UK. Dr Horn’s manner is exactly what you don’t want when dealing with such a delicate emotional and physical situation.

Dr James Kimilu of Androfill. His website claims he has done 11,970 procedures? Its also stated around 13,000 not so long ago!? So I don’t know whats going on there. Would that make him the most experienced in the world? Does not seem right again!

I’m going to start looking at Moorgate. However Skeptical seems reluctant to connect with them, even tho Francis from Androfill has said himself they have drastically improved. We really need other option’s in the UK because its quite clear that patients are not confident in Dr Horn’s manner.

Regardless of whether Dr Horn is experienced, other things like being on time, making the patient feel at ease and feeling taken care of of its also very important. Clearly he doesn’t do this.

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Ellansé poor results 2 days 9 hours ago #1308709799

I am reluctant to go with him again so I don’t disagree with what you’re saying at all. I’m just caught between wanting more work done and a lack of options of where to get that work done

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Ellansé poor results 1 day 10 hours ago #1308709802

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We see 2 to 4 Ellanse patients per week, almost all are not from PhalloBoards but are rather ex-HA patients enquiring about a longer lasting filler.

For perhaps 3 months we in 2019 we were injecting first time Dermal Filler patients with Ellanse.
I think giving Ellanse to 1st time patients was a mistake because the odds of a negative outcome are higher if we have not first seen how the penis responds to a reversible filler.
Ideally we should check with HA that:
- The patient's state of mind (are they able to follow instructions, are they going to have sex too soon and make a mess of it, are they going to get exceptional swelling and suffer some panic attack and make a mess of it).
- The patient's anatomy. Are they prone to filler migration into the Foreskin region, or some loose pocket of tissue. Do they have areas with tighter bands of tissue. Are there other aspects of their anatomy which make them a poor candidate for dermal fillers generally. We should find this out with Hyaluronic first, so that if there is an issue we can dissolve it away. Not all potential issues can be predicted in advance through examination of the penis.

I have not written down the names of every patient that has had Ellanse. That said, I do know roughly how many we have had in total, and I know every problem case.
I have seen this problem Machinations, and another one from Dr James Kimilu.

The majority, or even vast majority of Ellanse results are good or even excellent. The patients like the firmness more than anything. The durability of the product is secondary in my mind.

If I thought we couldn't do Ellanse with nearly 0 complications, we would simply not do it, we would pull the product.

Veterans of the forum will probably remember how reluctant we were to offer it in the start. The accusation was that we were trying to scare people off taking Ellanse because the longer lasting product would hurt recurring HA sales.

Put as simply as I can, we just couldn't tolerate more than 1 complication with something serious like Ellanse per year. It is financially and emotionally exhausting for the patient and albeit less so, for me and for Dr Horn. A complication is the last thing we want to have to deal with, it is exhausting, although worse for the patient. Here we are writing 3 years later about a bad result.

As a rough estimation I would say the following.

If a new patient to Ellanse, no prior history with dermal fillers, the chance of even a minor complication (aesthetics) is around 1 in 10. This is far too high for us, and this is why we turn away 1st time Dermal Filler patients wanting Ellanse.

A patient who had experienced filler to the penis, who we judge to be emotionally stable and able to follow instructions and having demonstrated the ability to mould HA well + no anatomical quirks, the chance of an issue is around 1 per year or around 1%.

The best thing a patient can do is to stay in close contact with me over Whatsapp, email or phone. I have stayed up until 2am helping Ellanse patients iron out little issues - that isn't purely altruism, it is also self-interest... I don't want any complications and an hour spent at midnight might save me 20 hours dealing with an issue later on.

I remember this case well. I remember thinking that this patient sounded very reasonable over the phone, Dr Horn also felt he would have a good result as a first time patient.
I remember not having any contact with the patient for 3-4 weeks following the procedure although I did try to get in touch.

The first time there was contact it was far too late to do much about the issue, which was explained to me at the time (and shown to me in photos) to be two small lumps of PCL in the Foreskin region.

In summary, I think a new patient to dermal fillers faces an unacceptably high change of a poor outcome. An 'experienced' patient has such a small chance of a poor outcome that we are willing to continue offering the product.

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Ellansé poor results 1 day 9 hours ago #1308709803

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I have not seen any video of this and this was not an issue I was aware of. The issue I was aware of was two lumps of filler in the Foreskin region which would have been quite simple to remove with a minor surgery using local anaesthetic.

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Ellansé poor results 1 day 9 hours ago #1308709804

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It would be good to see a video what the patient is saying, or some photos.
I have the anonymous photos (nothing that can clearly identify the patient) of the two small lumps of filler in the foreskin from this case.

I know that we could have made a very small incision and removed this Ellanse under local anaesthetic.
We offered to remove these lumps for free but the patient said he did not want a scar.
Dr Horn told him the scar would be very fine and would fade away to nothing within 12 months.

The patient wanted to be refunded and did not want the lumps removed.

To my knowledge this is the worst Ellanse result we have had since 2017.
However, Dr Kimilu in Manchester recently told me he has a small issue with Ellanse in a case I have not seen photos of.

Some might think well those lumps are small and could be quite easy to remove. But I can understand from the patient's perspective not wanting this done.
Even though the lumps in the foreskin might be quite small, I can imagine it would have been quite irritating for the patient, and unsightly, especially when folding over the erect penis as the patient does in the attached photos. ibb.co/vH9tgRm

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Last edit: by Androfill. Reason: Add photos, additional information.

Ellansé poor results 1 day 9 hours ago #1308709806

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Machinations wrote: It worked out ok-ish in the end. I still have an unsightly bump but some more filler made it look more natural. I did find Androfil very difficult to deal with and not sympathetic to problems at all


Can I ask where you had the additional filler? Was it HA?
I remember spending a lot of time on this case.
I think we offered to remove the lumps without charge, and we also gave you a refund.

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Ellansé poor results 1 day 8 hours ago #1308709807

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John1982 wrote: I feel exactly the same about our options in the UK. Dr Horn’s manner is exactly what you don’t want when dealing with such a delicate emotional and physical situation.

Dr James Kimilu of Androfill. His website claims he has done 11,970 procedures? Its also stated around 13,000 not so long ago!? So I don’t know whats going on there. Would that make him the most experienced in the world? Does not seem right again!

I’m going to start looking at Moorgate. However Skeptical seems reluctant to connect with them, even tho Francis from Androfill has said himself they have drastically improved. We really need other option’s in the UK because its quite clear that patients are not confident in Dr Horn’s manner.

Regardless of whether Dr Horn is experienced, other things like being on time, making the patient feel at ease and feeling taken care of of its also very important. Clearly he doesn’t do this.

John1982 wrote: I feel exactly the same about our options in the UK. Dr Horn’s manner is exactly what you don’t want when dealing with such a delicate emotional and physical situation.

Dr James Kimilu of Androfill. His website claims he has done 11,970 procedures? Its also stated around 13,000 not so long ago!? So I don’t know whats going on there. Would that make him the most experienced in the world? Does not seem right again!

I’m going to start looking at Moorgate. However Skeptical seems reluctant to connect with them, even tho Francis from Androfill has said himself they have drastically improved. We really need other option’s in the UK because its quite clear that patients are not confident in Dr Horn’s manner.

Regardless of whether Dr Horn is experienced, other things like being on time, making the patient feel at ease and feeling taken care of of its also very important. Clearly he doesn’t do this.


Dr Kimilu has performed 450 to 500 procedures through Androfill.

Regarding Moorgate.
This is the firm that first opened my eyes to how bad the industry was (and is).
In the past 2 years, I have heard nothing bad about MG and have had a number of patients tell me that MG is a 'reformed' company.
They have stopped the cheesy or pushy 'promo' type offers and the marketing of ligament cut and fat transfer surgery as procedures providing permanent length and Girth.

From their current website, the marketing has improved.
"The Moorgate Mega Penis package improves penis length & Girth while the Moorgate Max Girth package provides an extra 2 . 5 inches of increase to your penis length and a whopping 6cm extra Girth! Improve your confidence & improve your sexual performance as a result.

Moorgate’s new Supreme penis enlargement packages mean you can have an even bigger and better-looking penis. You simply choose your ideal package (no pun intended) and then our amazing Urology surgeons do the rest."

Patients are still being given unrealistic expectations of fat transfer with MG claiming it is a permanent and once-only procedure, not true.
The reason a doctor or clinic wants to sell "Length + Girth Fat Transfer" is so that they can charge £10 to 12k and profit of £7-9k, versus profiting around £800-£1,000 from a Dermal Filler procedure. The patient will generally be encouraged towards the higher profit procedure.

MG:
"Penile Thickening
An autologous fat transfer, using sophisticated fat purification systems, is the permanent way to increase your penis Girth. After this procedure, your penis Girth, in both the Flaccid and Erect state, can be 2.5 to 5cm thicker (1 to 2 inches)."

Regarding penis length surgery / lig cut. doctors would claim Penis Lengthening gives you "2-3 inches gain in length" and neglect to mention in the Flaccid state only.
Doctors now seem to admit that there is no gain in the Erect length, but as I see it, it took Androfill to point out that no gain in Erect length was possible before they started to be upfront / opaque about it. There was always this line used that the ligament cut would "reveal the hidden penis locked inside" or that by wearing an extender after surgery there would be an increase in Erect length.

From MG:
"Penile Lengthening
Reveal your hidden length and make your penis longer. This is the proven way to permanently increase your penis length by up to 2 inches."

Perhaps Moorgate are the same as they always were, but just with a new coat of paint.
One of the biggest issues is clinics flying in doctors from abroad who fly in on the day, perform the surgery and then fly out again.
Ultimately it is the doctor who is responsible for your medical outcome as a patient. It is difficult to be sure a fly-in doctor will still be working in the UK for MG in 6 months' time when they have an issue to deal with, particularly if it is a major issue.

In regard to Dr. Horn often delaying patients, not being chatty to the point of even being abrupt or rude, I don't get to see it first-hand, but I believe it.
I am not sure what can be done to make him more friendly, he is more on the introverted side until you know him well.
Maybe he gets impatient with answering the same questions every day. I sometimes look at him and think this is a plastic surgeon a high IQ answering pretty basic questions day in and out "can I still father children after HA", "how many times has this caused the penis to drop off" and etc. There is some authenticity in his lack of charm.
We have to work within these limitations, unfortunately we do not have the wind at our back with Dr Horn in terms of charm, but regardless of that headwind so far the good results more than make up for the time keeping and lack of EQ.

Dr. Horn has the technical ability to deliver results that have the lowest rates of rework and complication among any of the doctors I am aware of when dealing with HA. I talk to many doctors about their experiences offering HA and I was surprised to find for example that patients are routinely told they should expect to come in 2 or 3 times following the initial HA treatment for further filler to correct asymmetry. It is perhaps 1 in 15 to 20 cases that need such a follow-up corrective treatment at Androfill with Dr. Horn. I also know that if there is an issue with a patient that he/we will not fob that patient off, try to minimise the issue or escape responsibility. Dr Horn deals with it until the issue is resolved regardless of the time it takes.

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Last edit: by Androfill. Reason: Complaint from another clinic.
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