TOPIC: New HA filler claiming to last up to 5 years

mediatps wrote: Too squishy? Hmm, thats interesting. I\'ll ask for more info from Androfil.

Yeah, bare in mind Dr Kim has a habit of injecting way too much.

Too squishy? Hmm, thats interesting. I\'ll ask for more info from Androfil.

Dr Kim is a complete Fraudster, it's only temporary and won't last as long as it states but I don't see any harm in trying it for that price, although there was an Aussie guy who recently went to Dr Kim for HA and complained to was too squishy and had it dissolved.

chester wrote: Where\'s their documentation to support this claim?

Yeah, this is annoying. Vague claims and no real specific examples.

chester wrote: Subtle 77 had his procedure over a year ago. Go ask him how many touchups he\'s had during that time.

1 year 10 months so far and holding steady.

On this topic.
The filler Dr Kim claims to last 5 years is Cultgel Ultra made by BNC Korea.
We ordered a lot of this filler as we had good reports from some patients who have had it. But I doubt 5 years is true - BNC would be promoting a 5 year HA if they really had one?

In regard to Ellanse.
There is speculation that for economic reasons HA is preferred, but I don\'t think this is the case.
A safe and sensible 4-year product would greatly expand the market for filler procedures.

Dr Horn has injected the 3 and 4-year varieties of Ellanse in a number of patients who have accepted the high risk of Ellanse, and so far the results are good.
But Ellanse is high risk because, if you have a problem there is no dissolving the problem away like with HA, using Hyaluronidase.
Hyaluronidase is used at the clinic for little alterations, maybe a bit of filler is pinching a nerve etc and needs to be dissolved, or the shape is not perfect > use Hyaluronidase to fix.

Ellanse is more dangerous in the volume required in this area and can pool and clump together over time. To remove or alter Ellanse is difficult and invasive.

It would be good if there was a discussion on how complications and bad results from Ellanse are going to be dealt with when injected deep and can\'t be removed for 4 years.

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/dr-...nse-8390560?trail=30
User Upsize\'s experience in the face.

Androfill wrote: It would be good if there was a discussion on how complications and bad results from Ellanse are going to be dealt with when it is injected deep in the penis and can\'t be removed for 4 years.

Would you expect this to be any different from dealing with PMMA?

Androfill wrote: The difference between HA risk and Ellanse risk is my focus, and not explained well in some of the marketing to new patients.

You make the risk clear on your website. But aside from it being non dissolvable, I am just trying to understand exactly what the risks are and what the incidence / likelihood of adverse reaction is based on any available data, not hearsay.

All we have to go on at this point is that dr oats has been using it for almost 2 years (I don\'t know how many patients he\'s treated, maybe he can tell us) and that Morganstern in atlanta, who are top notch urologists and have been doing PE and research on it a long time, has been using it for about 7 months. If either of them discontinue its use then I\'ll pay attention for sure!

[Right. The exact same considerations as with PMMA requiring good technique, multiple sessions with small amounts, detailed after care instructions, etc... and guys are reporting PMMA results on a daily basis...and a 10 year history.]

Yes I agree, similar considerations to PMMA.

I would have Ellanse over PMMA myself because I know where Ellanse is made and that it is eventually fully bioabsorbable. That said, I would not take the risk of either, personally.

Both are much higher risk than HA. The difference between HA risk and Ellanse risk is my focus, and not explained well in some of the marketing to new patients.

Androfill wrote: Aside from granulomas, there are basic practical problems.

What to do if a lump of Ellanse is causing discomfort.

Or simply if the shape isn\'t good. Maybe the filler migrates to one area or the other or settles in an awkward position.

Right. The exact same considerations as with PMMA requiring good technique, multiple sessions with small amounts, detailed after care instructions, etc... and guys are reporting PMMA results on a daily basis...and a 10 year history.

Aside from granulomas, there are basic practical problems.

What to do if a lump of Ellanse is causing discomfort.

Or simply if the shape isn\'t good. Maybe the filler migrates to one area or the other or settles in an awkward position.

.

I don\'t think there is a conspiracy against Ellanse.

I\'m not implying one, I am just asking for real data sources, not vague claims.

How can complications be dealt with?

Here is a paper on treatment plans.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4366708/

Like PMMA it isn\'t able to be dissolved which changes the risk profile.

I don\'t think there is a conspiracy against Ellanse.

How can complications be dealt with?

Androfill wrote: 4-years is a ridiculous amount of time to wait out with a problem similar to that described by Upsize in the link above, and I hear of these issues with Ellanse not infrequently (in the face).

Yeah, I also \"hear\" it, like when Upsize suddenly registers on the forum the day someone starts the first Ellanse thread, describes his issue (with no pictures to document it), then vanishes. But where is the evidence that granulomas are high risk from Ellanse? I know the studies done by Sinclair are relatively small, but there are many studies done demonstrating the safety of PCL, so exactly how many documented cases or studies is the label high risk being based on? Do we have good reason to believe it is riskier than PMMA?

\'4-year PMMA\', but at least you know Ellanse is fully bioabsorbable eventually.

4-years is a very long time to wait with a problem similar to that described by Upsize in the link above, if genuine (it sounds plausible).

Ellanse risks need to be explained properly including what the backup plan is for dealing with complications.