TOPIC: PMMA firmness VS pre PMMA

My current understanding is that PMMA creates somehow a second shaft made of PMMA and collagen around the original shaft (I mean around the tunica).

This new shaft is vascularised (new veins etc) and its firmness varies according to blood flow, just like the tunica does.

When the tunica is rock hard, it can get diamond-cutter hard (copyright Mustang), it\'s the case for mine.
When it\'s soft, it\'s completely spongy.

When PMMA shaft is rock hard, it\'s hard (how much ?)
When PMMA shaft is soft, it\'s kind of rubery, less spongy than a soft natural dick, especially with higher concentrations. It even can enable penetration with a semi.

The question I would ask is:
Can the shaft made of PMMA & collagen, when fully vascularised (taking cialis for example), be as diamond-cutter hard as a tunica can be ?

If I take Mustang\'s input, the answer would be no, but a good firmness anyway. That would go inline with the positive sexual experiences of 30% members (not saying 10 or 20% have bad experiences, but for some the 10% has been reported too spongy for their taste).

A possible understanding could be that the range of firmness is higher for a natural tunica than for an enhanced PMMA shaft, for example:

a natural tunica could go from 0 to 10. (on an absolute basis, for one man it could be 0 to 9 for another 0 to
a 30% PMMA enhanced shaft could go from let\'s say 2 to 8.
a 10% maybe from 1 to 7.

That\'s enough to convince me I would not be disappointed with a 30% enhanced dong, but, do everyone react the same ? What\'s the influence of one\'s own collagen and vascularisation on the firmness ? The more inputs, the better we can understand this.

Maybe a good poll choice would be, \"It\'s less firm and it\'s not enough, I wish it would be firmer\".
Another one: \"I can\'t really tell if it\'s firmer or less firm, the feeling isn\'t exactly the same\".

What do you think ?

EDIT: writing this I kind of feel like Randy from south park, like in this one => www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s15e04-tmi

Yeah, I know enough to be confident about the 30%. It\'s just trying to be perfectionist.

Your nerve damage thing sounds a bit scary to me... how long has it been ? do you think it heals overtime ?

I wanted to add my thoughts/Theory on the \"feel\" of my PMMA penis. This may apply to some PMMA patients but it may not apply to every one since every one\'s penis is unique.

I have never touched another penis in my life and I am not afraid to touch some one else\'s penis to compare the hardness/EQ to my own, I am not homophobic in any way neither am I a homosexual

These are my thoughts/Theory:

(BTW, I am assuming a moderate to large amount of PMMA is injected and more than one session is performed. If you inject a few CC\'s, my comments do not apply since the final Girth effect will be minimum)

IF you have generally a good EQ (Erection Quality) and a hard rock erections pre PMMA

I theorize and feel , and it is true in my case, the following:

If you get 10% PMMA, the final feel and after the stabilized Girth has occurred, you will have a much lower Erection firmness feel. The Flaccid firmness may be the same more or less.

If you get 20% PMMA, the final feel and after the stabilized Girth has occurred, you will have a lower Erection firmness feel. The Flaccid firmness may be very slightly more.

If you get 30% PMMA, the final feel and after the stabilized Girth has occurred, you will have a Little lower Erection firmness feel. The Flaccid firmness will be a bit more.

IF you have generally a low EQ (Erection Quality) and medium to soft erections pre PMMA

I theorize and conclude the following which is based on reading some reports here, watching some men with soft Erection in porn and based on some educated guessing:

If you get 10% PMMA, the final feel and after the stabilized Girth has occurred, you will have a similar Erection firmness feel. The Flaccid firmness may be the same more or less.

If you get 20% PMMA, the final feel and after the stabilized Girth has occurred, you will have a little higher Erection firmness feel. The Flaccid firmness may be slightly more.

If you get 30% PMMA, the final feel and after the stabilized Girth has occurred, you will have a higher Erection firmness feel. The Flaccid firmness may more.
As you can see, the theory above is linearly based and for me it had felt exactly this way for Hi EQ pre PMMA situation. I have to think it should follow suit if I had a lower EQ/Erection firmness pre PMMA.

Over all, I believe that in \"most cases\" the final outcome for PMMA enhanced penis will be softer for a hard Erection penis and a bit firmer for a softer Erection penis, pre PMMA of course.

Also, remember that the PMMA resides in the penile skin above the CC (Corpora Cavernosa) and in my opinion, anything added in the penile skin to increase the Girth such as PMMA will add a bit of softness feeling with a rock hard CC under it, since pre PMMA that penile skin was a thinner and hence one can feel the hardness of the CC much better than with a PMMA enhanced penile skin. Once PMMA and the following collagen has develped and stabalized, the it follows that the penile skin is thicker and will have a slightly softer feeling than before.

I do understand that some of these comments may be contradictory, but we are talking about a very dynamic organ that has yet to be fully understood by the medical community. Add to that that most men will only touch and feel their own members and have no reference point to gauge against, it is not easy to come to a very finite conclusion about how firm one\'s penis is!

Stay healthy.

Jelq Nicholson wrote: My current understanding is that PMMA creates somehow a second shaft made of PMMA and collagen around the original shaft (I mean around the tunica)

So does the PMMA adhere to the inner shaft and still allow for the skin to slide over it? Or is the PMMA part of the skin ?

Well, I don\'t know really... I think hoddle gave you a good answer in another thread. I\'ve also read it moves with the skin (at least for one guy) somewhere.

Thanks Mustang btw for the detailed answer, it makes sense.

Smalljay I hope things are getting better for you.

It\'s been a while I didn\'t watch this thread, thought I had answered to you.

I don\'t really know if the term firmness is adequate to describe the texture change that PMMA gives. A glance at the survey results shows that replies are fairly evenly spread among all anwers. Of course this is subject to change as more vote.

In my case with quite a few visits to Dr C, the last few being for touch-ups with 30%, I have noticed that my erections are harder than before. Actually there is a slightly cushier initial feel but then there is greater deep resistance to the tissues. On the surface it is softer but when you press it presses back. This is different from my pre-PMMA unit which was hard at the surface but would give when pressing with more insistance. FWIW.

Cheers,

Hunk Chunk

PS. When I am very aroused it gets harder than my pre-PMMA unit ever was, amazing girls at how it\'s rigid. When done, it remains firm enough to ride as some girls like to keep going...

Big difference.. I\'m rock hard and stay thick when I\'m finished, my playmates have noticed the difference.

Bumping this, more replies would be very interesting.

Actually I\'m a bit surprised this hasn\'t evolved into more of a concern, isn\'t hardness quite important when pleasuring a woman?

If it is true that 10% will likely result in a softer consitence then I think those interested in PMMA deserve to know. I know I am concerned with ending up with a softer penis myself.

Atlas Drugged wrote: Bumping this, more replies would be very interesting.

Actually I\'m a bit surprised this hasn\'t evolved into more of a concern, isn\'t hardness quite important when pleasuring a woman?

If it is true that 10% will likely result in a softer consitence then I think those interested in PMMA deserve to know. I know I am concerned with ending up with a softer penis myself.

I don\'t think this poll proves that 10% gives you a softer penis. Only 2 people answered that way, and the poll is extremely limited. Absolutely no way you can make a valid determination of that from this poll.

I am very new to the board and feel compelled to comment on this thread given my understanding of the concept behind percentages and concentrations as it applies elsewhere in my profession.

10% means that 1 part out of 10 parts is comprised of PMMA. The remaining 90% is a vehicle used to deliver the PMMA beads within the tissue as uniformly as possible. The vehicle, depending on the brand, is bio-available and will be processed by the body and eliminated through the kidneys over the course of several weeks. What is left in the tissue are the PMMA spheres which are NOT bio-available. They\'re permanent. And as I have come to understand it the body naturally encapsulates these spheres with human collagen as a matter of protecting itself from the foreign substance. This is the desired process and outcome and why there is so much discussion about incentivizing collagen production, etc.

30% means that 3 parts out of 10 is comprised of PMMA. And as before the remaining 70% is a vehicle used to deliver the PMMA spheres, etc. The process is the same as described above.

Therefore 10cc of 30% will have 3x as much active PMMA within it as opposed to the 10% formulation. In other words, one procedure of 10cc of 30% is equal to three procedures of 10cc of 10%, which is also equal to a single 30cc procedure of 10%, etc. The outcome would be theoretically identical, excluding any scar tissue build up if a person were to have three as opposed to one procedure.

That is to imply that the same amount of PMMA that has been fully assimilated into vascularized tissue, irregardless of the initial concentration, should feel the same. Therefore, if you have less of it, you will feel more like your original self. If you have more, you\'ll feel less like your original self.

What this comes down to is how dense the final installation of the PMMA beads is. My assumption is that if you have one procedure of 30% at say 20cc, the result would be identical if you took a three procedure route using 10% at 20cc each time. The density outcome would be the same. Therefore the \'feeling\' would be the same.

Men that opt for three 30% procedures will have 9x as much PMMA in their penis, over those that have three 10% procedures (assuming the same CC volumes are used.) And therein is where I believe the issue of firmness, or a rubbery feel, stems from. This becomes very hard to determine because most of what I have read indicates that a combination of concentrations are used in different areas of the penis. And there is probably good reason for this. Different parts of the organ have different structures. My sense from what I have been absorbing is that 30% is most appropriate at the base and that 10% is most appropriate toward the glans. This is done because more vehicle is needed in different areas to distribute the PMMA. The subsequent massaging program that follows in the days after is done to ensure that the vehicle is distributed evenly, spreading out the beads in an even network. All before the body starts to remove the injection vehicle. Once that vehicle is dissipated, the PMMA is locked in place. So proper massage is paramount.

Second to this, human tissues are a three dimensional weave. Meaning its is like a woven textile, but in 3D, not 2D. If any of you have made cheese or poured pasta into a strainer ... you know what happens. The pasta or curds are captured and the water flows out. The water, in this example, is the vehicle. The PMMA beads are the curds or pasta. You have to squish them through the strainer, which in our case is penile tissue. Hence the need to massage.

All in I can\'t theoretically believe that different concentrations in and of themselves cause different outcomes. What DOES cause different outcomes is how much PMMA is left over: 10% or 30%; 1x or 3x.

@faculae:

I think you\'re on the right path here. There\'s another component to add and that\'s the size of the penis to start with. In the end what you\'re contemplating is the percentage of PMMA in the penis.

Dr C (and probably other docs too) attempts to add the appropriate amount to the penis according to the penis size and desired results. For my 3 rounds I probably averaged about 18cc each time. Others were getting 25cc and more. The difference was that they had more size to begin with.

In terms of firmness:
My experience has been no change in Erect firmness or feel. But I have noticed a increase firmness in my Flaccid. My Flaccid is a lot more firm. Not as firm as a semi but still much firmer my pre-PMMA Flaccid. My Flaccid penis feels heavier too... much more substantial. For me that was an unexpected benefit.

faculae, that\'s an excellent explanation of \"figures! However, three layers of 10% PMMA cannot be the same as a single layer of 30% beads. I believe that subsequent injections would not interact with the former collagen already formed and there will not be an homogeneous mixture of the beads as they are being added in later procedures. Empirical conclusions based on the reports and the polls will be better than any theory about the mechanics of the procedure ...

Yes to both CPW & Jogift. I completely agree.

@CPW: the density of the installation is absolutely a metric to consider. If one where to install 10cc over an area of 100 square centimeters the initial result would be about 1mm of thickness. Then allow the 70% vehicle to dissipate and you\'d be left with about .3mm of thickness in the 30% formulation. Or ... .01%mm of thickness in the 10% formulation. After that physiology kicks in, and this is the part where we\'re all different. Younger men make more collagen, etc. Again, this is all pure thought/theory, but I assume this is the benchmark that is used when picking the right amount/s to inject: age, surface area & goal.

@Jogift: I have to concede, I have no idea if previous installations of PMMA that have settled with collagen are permeable during subsequent procedures. I will leave that to the professionals. If not, you could very well be correct that an additional layer increase the perception of firmness, etc. This is why I made a quick mention of \'scar tissue\' in my post above.

Otherwise, something interesting to consider is that the approximate shaft surface area of a 4\"FL x 4\"FG penis, minus an approximate glans, is about 12-square inches, or 75-square centimeters. The size of an index card. In a 30% concentration at 20cc this would initially result in about a .26mm increase in radius, or a .5mm increase in diameter. Meaning the circumference would go from 4\" to about 4.63\" (10.16cm to 11.87cm around.) I think this is very consistent with what I\'ve come across on the forum and in Dr. C\'s writing both here and on his site.

Then there is up to a 70% loss in this additional Girth (when 30% PMMA is used) as the vehicle is absorbed and swelling decreases. This will take the fictional penis I\'m referencing to about 4.18\" around if it were allowed to persist uninterrupted. However, the patient\'s ganuloma process inserts itself somewhere along the way (healing) and we see size come back. Again this is consistent with what I\'ve read in terms of losing size in the week or so after the procedure. Only then to see it return at about the two week mark and beyond as the collagen/fibrosis (granulomas) enter the picture.

My guess is that any differential of firmness men discover after moderate to conservative PMMA injections can largely be attributed to the the granuloma process, which is entirely subjective and a function of personal factors such as health, age, healing rate, etc. However, again, I do concede that large amounts of PMMA and/or multiple installations may alter the \'feeling\' later due to excessive scar tissue/s or simply the PMMA itself.

As an example, we all probably have scars on our bodies; PMMA or no PMMA. And each of those scars forms and behaves differently on different people. On me they tend to disappear after about a year if I had stitches. On others we get permanent keloids (raised hard overgrown scars.) All of those factors are going to contribute to the outcome of how PMMA performs. I don\'t think there is anything in the way of measurable or arguable consistency in the way of firmness across all patients.

The only thing we can faithfully work from is our own personal healing history. Do you heal well, or heal unfavorably? Do scars usually blend in, disappear, become raised or create hollows when you get a severe cut or stitches? Are they hard or soft? All of these things may indicate how you will react to PMMA, because they are clues about how YOUR body heals.

Just my two cents.

I have historically healed fast without keloids. But I\'m older so who knows....