TOPIC: A Fascinating Alternative to Phalloplasty

The fact that it is sold as something revolutionary but have been sold for years without any medical attention is where it smells fishy. It is just a PRP protocol sold differently. Also saying NO bad outcomes and then you mention yes there is ''just like anything'' is another red flag.
The effect you see from the prp is your penis full of fluids and the temporary Girth you get is while using pumps and stretchers but as soon as you stop, gains are gone and it makes sense why if you understand how it works.
I did use PMP and Restorex, which are medical grade. I did use all and every kinds of nitric oxyde supplements. I did the protocols for a little less than 2 years.
There is no study on the human penis whatsoever that PRP does any improvement. We should have the first outcomes in December of the study of PRP on men with peyronie's disease and the full results in april 2024. But as far as I know and from my Urologist perspective, there is no length or Girth gain to get from PRP, whatever you mix it with.

oysters wrote: There is no study on the human penis whatsoever that PRP does any improvement.

academic.oup.com/jsm/article/20/Suppleme.../qdad060.125/7164855

16 men completed the study, it is not peer reviewed and the long term effect have not been studied, meaning we have no idea if the effect is permanent. If you ask me or others that used prp and traction, they'll tell you, it is not.

Taking issue with study design is quite different from an absolute statement that no studies exist.

oysters wrote: The fact that it is sold as something revolutionary but have been sold for years without any medical attention is where it smells fishy. It is just a PRP protocol sold differently. Also saying NO bad outcomes and then you mention yes there is ''just like anything'' is another red flag.
The effect you see from the prp is your penis full of fluids and the temporary girth you get is while using pumps and stretchers but as soon as you stop, gains are gone and it makes sense why if you understand how it works.
I did use PMP and Restorex, which are medical grade. I did use all and every kinds of nitric oxyde supplements. I did the protocols for a little less than 2 years.
There is no study on the human penis whatsoever that PRP does any improvement. We should have the first outcomes in December of the study of PRP on men with peyronie's disease and the full results in april 2024. But as far as I know and from my urologist perspective, there is no length or girth gain to get from PRP, whatever you mix it with.

Yes, it's very clear that PRP alone doesn't contribute to any notable length or girth, no one is disputing that. The idea is that it is used in conjunction with a Protocol, and as you yourself admitted, provided gains. Perhaps the lack of permanence in your regard is what you take issue with.

What I said was a red flag? You mean when I mentioned that all methods of PE possess inherent risk, as they are all completely elective and entirely unnecessary for the benefit of your overall health? If you find that the potential consequences from P-Long, Dermal Injections, or Graft Surgeries are too much to bear, you ought to exit PE altogether.

Sure, the studies available at present time aren't as robust as we'd like, but the P-Long is published in an Andrology Journal, which is a step forward, and hopefully men of this forum will further validate (or invalidate) the legitimacy of this method. After all, this is a Protocol for those who prefer the "organic" route of penis enlargement (PE).

The burden of proof is on P-Long, so until we see a high rate of dissatisfaction being reported, can we really pass any valid judgment? You did not do the P-Long Protocol as prescribed, so if you wish to share your experiences (which again, admits to acquiring gains), please create your own topic and share what you know, that is completely fine. Otherwise, your posts within this thread lack any constructive information given that you (1) aren't a P-Long participant and (2) admitted that gains are achievable while going through a similar method.

What I think went completely over your head, or what you failed to read between the lines is that your skepticism and criticisms are valid, this thread is just not the place to do them. You can create your own topic and chat up all you want about your critiques, that's the fundamental ethos of this forum. However, to come to a Sponsor's thread (you know, the kind of folks that help keep this site running, the kind of folks that impart their medical insight to everyone here at no cost, the kind of folks who are attempting to advance alternative means to PE, and so on), I find it personally disrespectful that you throw around words like "fishy" despite (1) you yourself acknowledging gains are acquirable; (2) doing so in a designated Sponsor's FAQ thread; (3) suggestive of something fraudulent, despite the fact that we have yet to hear back from forum member feedback/progress reports given that this Protocol requires a minimum of 6 months.

Skepticism is in my username. I'm all for being critical, but there are designated places on this site to do so. All these suggestive, non-constructive comments not only may be interpreted as offensive, but often times alienate Doctors from further community engagement, which hurts us all. They effectively serve as free consultation to an entire forum, but mindless posting as of late serve no purpose in advancing the topic forward. Have you noticed that Dr. Brandeis hasn't replied in a while? Same thing has happened to Androfill, Avanti Derma, and others. If you have criticisms, create your own topic and let others discuss it with you. I'm making it very clear now, any more comments that sidetrack Sponsor-designated Topics (typically color-coded YELLOW), especially with incendiary language, will be an instant ban. And I'm now asking you @oysters specifically to understand you've been banned from this topic (not the forum). If you wish to respond you can do so to me via private message, but I'm tired of seeing physician disengagement due to one person failing to think before hitting the Reply button, a huge disservice to the thousands of men who visit this site. We NEED more Doctor-Community engagement, I alone (as well as our seasoned Moderators & Veteran Members) aren't sufficient enough to provide the answers to the multitude of questions that come along with real penis enlargement.

And that I'm also VERY CLEAR for all Members, if you have a criticism, there are ways to ask about it without needlessly throwing shade, especially at a Medical Professional who is willing to take time out of their busy day to answer your question(s). I'm not promoting censorship, I'm promoting constructive discussion. So for example, @oysters could have said "Dr. Brandeis, I tried a method that involved A, B, and C, which seems somewhat similar to P-Long, and despite making gains, I didn't achieve permanency. What would you say sets P-Long apart and why I should reconsider this approach instead?" Imagine how much more constructive that would have been? Forum etiquette is not complicated, and questions can be critical here if phrased respectfully.

If you have your reservations, there are a multitude of other options out there. If you don't like a Sponsor here, there are others. If you don't like any of the Sponsors, then shop around elsewhere. If you have valid criticisms, create your own topic, or like I said previously, find a way to ask it respectfully & constructively. Refrain from incendiary language or suggestive phrases that can be interpreted as offensive, it's completely disrespectful. If you can't stomach risks involved in elective methodologies, this forum isn't for you.

This method could eventually be seen as a bust in a year or two, it could be seen as one that can work but needs tweaking, or it could be seen as the right "ratio of methodologies" and be a big hit. Till such time, lets use this topic thread as a means of learning as much as we can for those who would prefer a non-surgical route of penis enlargement. Plain and simple.

Carry on this discussion as intended, thanks.

I wish I could find it but I saw a collage on LPSG once of a bunch of measured photos a guy took of his penis, each one with a slightly different measuring technique. The gold standard: hard ruler, bone pressed, penis perpendicular to the body. Slip the ruler underneath the pubic bone, a bit of extra length. Move the ruler to the side, running alongside the penis: extra length. Angle the penis down towards the floor: extra length. Use a tape measure: same story. The difference in length could be more than an Inch depending on how he measured.

My concern with P-Long and any study that relies on self-reported results is that these are people who are highly motivated to see that number go up and have been told that's what this protocol will do. It's very easy to fool yourself into thinking gains are happening by slightly changing how you measure. "I'm just measuring more accurately now," you might say to yourself, if you notice the change at all. Even the angle from which you view the ruler will affect the number you see. When we're talking about fractions of an Inch, it doesn't take much.

I'm hopeful about the use of PRP in PE. But for me, it would increase my confidence in this protocol if the researchers took the measurements. Patients are already coming in once a month. They're already having blood drawn and needles stuck in their penis. What's a quick measure while the blood is spinning? Sure, it wouldn't be Erect measurements, but stretched Flaccid length is easy to do and is commonly used as a proxy for Erect length in penis size surveys. Just my two cents.

So True . I’ve fooled myself on numerous occasions .
For length you can mesure with the ruler pressed in multiple places and measure the differences — do it morning and night . That’s for bpfsl . For BPEL I think the best way is to go max in a pump after , say , 7 minutes .
Again w:averaging maybe 2 x /day .

Definitely anal , but when you’re measuring to 1-2 mm accuracy ( I think that’s about the best u can do ), you really do need to do some averaging . .

otis wrote: I wish I could find it but I saw a collage on LPSG once of a bunch of measured photos a guy took of his penis, each one with a slightly different measuring technique. The gold standard: hard ruler, bone pressed, penis perpendicular to the body. Slip the ruler underneath the pubic bone, a bit of extra length. Move the ruler to the side, running alongside the penis: extra length. Angle the penis down towards the floor: extra length. Use a tape measure: same story. The difference in length could be more than an inch depending on how he measured.

My concern with P-Long and any study that relies on self-reported results is that these are people who are highly motivated to see that number go up and have been told that's what this protocol will do. It's very easy to fool yourself into thinking gains are happening by slightly changing how you measure. "I'm just measuring more accurately now," you might say to yourself, if you notice the change at all. Even the angle from which you view the ruler will affect the number you see. When we're talking about fractions of an inch, it doesn't take much.

I'm hopeful about the use of PRP in PE. But for me, it would increase my confidence in this protocol if the researchers took the measurements. Patients are already coming in once a month. They're already having blood drawn and needles stuck in their penis. What's a quick measure while the blood is spinning? Sure, it wouldn't be erect measurements, but stretched flaccid length is easy to do and is commonly used as a proxy for erect length in penis size surveys. Just my two cents.

@otis thank you! This the kind of constructive feedback I believe we need to discuss.

Expressing reasonable concerns, respectful scrutiny, and healthy skepticism can only help improve our understanding, as well as provide P-Long the kind of data & feedback required if this Protocol is to see any progress.

For guys who are already engaged in some sort of Penis Enlargement (PE) routine and still somewhat on the fence with respect to injections or incisions, you all can play a vital role in providing a sample size that far exceeds the number of men trialed in the Study. My hope is you all report, because if it isn't already obvious, the vast majority of this site's traffic are visitors who do their research, book their appointment, and move on with their lives, never having posted once. We really need guys who have already decided to sign up for P-Long to put it all out there: whether positive gains, no gains, fair criticisms, or fair praise.

And you are so right about how measurements can be skewed by personal bias (i.e. wanting to see gains). As a matter of fact, I recall that Moderator Hoddle10's biggest criticism of other PE Forums that were mostly dedicated to PE exercises & routines. He pointed out the fact that many of the cases were self-reported, and photos often had varying degrees of "accuracy" with respect to proper measurement. When it comes to a medical procedure, self-reporting isn't so controversial because the gains are typically immediate and self-evident, even if the measurement technique wasn't optimal. However, with anything involving routines & protocols, accuracy is vital.

In my opinion bone-pressed measurements are the way to go, flaccid and/or erect.

I think it's also a great idea, IF possible, to inject caverject and have the physician use a hard ruler (to ensure the bone-press effect) and mark the measurements on their Medical File. Every month, or maybe once at the 3 month marker and once again at the 6 month marker.

otis wrote: I wish I could find it but I saw a collage on LPSG once of a bunch of measured photos a guy took of his penis, each one with a slightly different measuring technique. The gold standard: hard ruler, bone pressed, penis perpendicular to the body. Slip the ruler underneath the pubic bone, a bit of extra length. Move the ruler to the side, running alongside the penis: extra length. Angle the penis down towards the floor: extra length. Use a tape measure: same story. The difference in length could be more than an Inch depending on how he measured.

My concern with P-Long and any study that relies on self-reported results is that these are people who are highly motivated to see that number go up and have been told that's what this protocol will do. It's very easy to fool yourself into thinking gains are happening by slightly changing how you measure. "I'm just measuring more accurately now," you might say to yourself, if you notice the change at all. Even the angle from which you view the ruler will affect the number you see. When we're talking about fractions of an Inch, it doesn't take much.

I'm hopeful about the use of PRP in PE. But for me, it would increase my confidence in this protocol if the researchers took the measurements. Patients are already coming in once a month. They're already having blood drawn and needles stuck in their penis. What's a quick measure while the blood is spinning? Sure, it wouldn't be Erect measurements, but stretched Flaccid length is easy to do and is commonly used as a proxy for Erect length in penis size surveys. Just my two cents.

I HATE when I see photo "proof" like this and I'm planning on being as consistent and honest with you all as I can be. I'm due for my second month's check in here in a week or so and I will do my best to make sure every month has consistent photographed measurements. Mostly for my own curiosity because if this works I want it to be very clear FINALLY to individuals as skeptical as I typically am whether this works or not.

Doc has inspired confidence in me so now it's my job to document this as accurately as I can. It should be fairly clear if *something* is happening within these six months.

Hi Dr. Brandeis. Wanted to send this Vice article your way.

www.vice.com/en/article/bvjym3/penis-enlargement-subreddit

I wonder if they'd be interested in your study and maybe post a follow up. Just a thought.

Dort forget, the apex - extender is not for all mens,50% penis are micro,bloid--penis or burried hidden penis ,this Group of penis dont can wear apex extender. Or the most stretchers on the market,we wait for a stretcher for micro penis too that we can wear more then 5 -10 hours per day
All day without strangulation the penis veins and pain ,i hope 2023 we become a New device in long wear stretchers for all Typs of penis (long or micro)

Murat wrote: Dort forget, the apex - extender is not for all mens,50% penis are micro,bloid--penis or burried hidden penis ,this Group of penis dont can wear apex extender. Or the most stretchers on the market,we wait for a stretcher for micro penis too that we can wear more then 5 -10 hours per day
All day without strangulation the penis veins and pain ,i hope 2023 we become a New device in long wear stretchers for all Typs of penis (long or micro)

The Apex is a strategically marketed stretching device that just "looks good" by design. I'm not throwing shade, it could very well be effective, but it falls in line with my previous assertion that the vast majority of these instruments are "pseudo-guru"-designed and mass produced in a basement or abroad (neither of which are disqualifiers, just worth making note of when comparing it to devices that already have scientific backing like the RestoreX Stretcher).

I know some have modified this Protocol for their own reasons, but I would especially like to see reports of men who follow this Protocol to a T for the full duration. As someone who managed to yank a full 1inch in Erect length from mild stretching & wet jelqs alone, I'm completely open to the idea that a scientifically crafted version of these methods may prove more effective.

oysters wrote: The fact that it is sold as something revolutionary but have been sold for years without any medical attention is where it smells fishy. It is just a PRP protocol sold differently. Also saying NO bad outcomes and then you mention yes there is ''just like anything'' is another red flag.

I AM NOT CLAIMING THAT THIS IS REVOLUTIONARY. I AM USING EXISTING TOOL AND COMBINING THEM TO SAFELY ACHIEVE A GOAL THAT MANY MEN DESIRE. I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY DISASTERS FROM OTHER TECHNIQUES.
The effect you see from the prp is your penis full of fluids and the temporary Girth you get is while using pumps and stretchers but as soon as you stop, gains are gone and it makes sense why if you understand how it works.

I DISAGREE. I HAVE SEEN LONG TERM GAINS IN THE MEN IN THE P-LONG STUDY AND IN FOLLOW UP.

I did use PMP and Restorex, which are medical grade. I did use all and every kinds of nitric oxyde supplements. I did the protocols for a little less than 2 years.
There is no study on the human penis whatsoever that PRP does any improvement.

YOU ARE INCORRECT. THERE ARE FOUR STUDIES. THE P-LONG STUDY. ONE FROM GREECE, ONE FROM TURKEY THAT BOTH SHOW IMPROVEMENT. THERE IS ANOTHER FROM UNIVERSITY OF MIAMA THAT SHOWED THE SAME AMOUNT OF IMPROVEMENT AS THE PLACEBO. THIS STUDY CONCLUDED THAT THERE WAS NO BENEFIT FROM PRP BUT THEY NEVER EXPLAINED WHERE THERE WAS BENEFIT FROM THEIR PLACEBO.

We should have the first outcomes in December of the study of PRP on men with peyronie's disease and the full results in april 2024. But as far as I know and from my Urologist perspective, there is no length or Girth gain to get from PRP, whatever you mix it with. I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN YOUR STUDY AND YOUR PROTOCOL. CAN YOU SHARE THE STUDY DESIGN AND THE CLINICAL TRIALS.GOV NUMBER SO I CAN LOOK UP YOUR PROTOCOL. THERE IS ONE STUDY OUT OF FRANCE THAT SHOWED SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT FROM PRP ON PD (VIRAG ET AL) BUT I NEVER BELIEVED THE RESULTS. WHERE ARE YOU INJECTING THE PRP? INQUIRING MINDS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW?

Thank you. I will follow up.

From a clinical research perspective, how would I get rigid erections and then measure them in my medical office? If I used injection therapy, then I would have to inject men several times each visit which would make patient recruitment and retention very difficult. And I would prefer not to have men stimulating themselves in my office. Stretch penile length is very easy to fake and does not take Girth into account. At home erections with images was my best option. And if I did not feel like this actually worked, I would never stake my professional reputation on it. I have many other ways to support myself.

I agree that ideally we would measure erections in the office with full rigidity. However, I do the best with the resources that I have.

I am in private practice. I do not have residents, medical students or other research resources at my disposal. I saw a problem, designed a protocol, did the research, reported the results to the ISSM/SMSNA, and published the results in a reviewed journal. I just received notice that the final P-Long results have been accepted for presentation at the SMSNA meeting this year. In addition to two other research studies that I conducted in my office.

I appreciate the skepticism. That is why I offered for 5 men to receive treatment at my office at cost if they posted their results on this forum. I don't know what else I can do to be fully open and transparent about how this works.

Judson Brandeis MD