TOPIC: Androfill London updates

It's something already outlined from other memebrs in different topics, but I think it was better to open a specific one for this matter, so it's not lost in other discussions.

It would be very helpful to have an update from @androfill of the current situation/statistics about the procedure oucomes both with HA and Ellansè.
It would be very informative to know how many procedures have been performed during the last couple of years, if some tecnique-filler improvement has been made, and if the patients satisfaction rate increased.
Their bef/aft photos on the website are now almost 5 years old, their last update on their Facebook is dated 2018, 3-4 years in the field of penis enhancement equals a geolocical era.
Dr. Horn is one of the most experienced specialist worldwide with over 7000 procedures, we have a handful of reports on the forum with happy patients and some other with mixed feelings.
I'm sure it would be beneficial for Androfill, as a Sponsor, to boost all forum members (as well as hundreds of lurkers) confidence with a robust update.
Their absence on the forum is also something to be considered, and we all wish to see them more often here, their last post is one year old now and very rare after 2018.

Just to re-cap all forum members that had a procedure from Androfill in the past 3 years, I mention them here (sorry if I forgot somebody, you can add yourself):
@Almost_there (Ellanse) with report
@Arnold77 (Ellanse) no report
@Joytoy (Ellanse) with report
@Dexterphall (ellanse) with report
@Andy990 (ellanse) no report
@Auguste (HA) with report
@VolumaNewbie (HA) no report
@hotmale5 (HA) no report

It would be also great to have updates reports from those who didn't write about it, and from all other members/lurkers who had experience with Androfill, I'm pretty sure there should be someone else around hopefully willing to share their direct experience, based on the hundreds/thousands patients they had in the last 3 years.

Good shout, Tiritera.

I’m also eager to hear more about recent experiences with Androfill. I’m considering going for HA in the near future.

Yes it will definitely be helpful and encouraging to hear from Androfill about their recent work, as they are the only reliable clinic listed on this forum for Europe.

@skeptical_one it would be great if you could use your privileged position to get in touch with them and forward our request. They should be interested in being closer to all their patients and especially with potential new ones

I dont think some people here in the forum really care for any good results. They seems to care more about monetize on it. I mean i got the reply if I want help 'I could pay for consulting'. But then you should share your picsaas reports and get such an answer from an admin back.
I'm in contact with someone else who was at Androfill who has the same mixed feelings about it like I have.

@Joytoy
Not sure what you're trying to imply but let me inform you on some facts:
(1) People choose to post here voluntarily, often times when they are happy and move on with their lives, they post less and less. I pray and wish everyone continues to update, some do, some don't.
(2) Some people update months apart, not days. You can always try to private message them directly and hope they respond, but not everyone logs in daily like you and me.
(3) 85% of registered members are lurkers. This means they never post once, just read the content and book their appointments. I can't force people to reply if they choose not to.
(4) I've already answered on this numerous times in the past - I have tried to get in touch with Androfill and they've been busy, and hopefully today's message to them will reinforce the importance of them responding to the forum. I can't force Francis or Androfill or Dr. Horn to post if they choose not to, and I can only do so much on my end.
(5) You're correct about the consulting. You could pay any Doctor's office and they'll tell you what you want to hear, their sales pitch of course. Instead, you have all the unfiltered access to patient reports here at no cost. If you don't want to wait, go get a consultation then, no one is stopping you!

If you want to suggest I don't care for good results then why do I care about the Sponsors I bring on? If I didn't care about results, why not let Dr. Elist and Dr. Loria pay me double for their advertisements? If you want to imply I don't care about the results of my readership, I ask you never to post here again.

@tiritera
I'm going to give a very strong try again this week to see if I can really get them to respond.

Skeptical_One wrote: I'm going to give a very strong try again this week to see if I can really get them to respond.

Thank you @Skeptical_one , let’s hope they can find time to chime in.

Hi this is Francis, the Director of Androfill.

Apologies for our absence, we are not focused on marketing at the moment, which includes PB, facebook and so on.
If anything, Dr Horn feels we are stretched to cope with the number of patients we are seeing.

By now we have a long-standing relationship with PhalloBoards, so in the interests of sharing information, more so than gathering new patients, I will write some replies.

I would be interested to know what patients are thinking about in regard to the HA and Ellanse procedures.

I agree some of our updates are from years ago now, geological timeframes in penis enlargement as one member put it.

I will share a couple of things I have come to conclusions on over the past couple of years. I am not a doctor, so these are conclusions based on patient results and feedback rather than medical science. Regardless I think some of the conclusions can help guide people.

Too much HA is being injected per patient.
We have stopped this at Androfill as far as I am aware and have had warnings on the website about injecting too much filler for over 2 years now.

However, almost every other clinic and doctor doing HA (even the good doctors) still inject far too much filler. There is no other way to explain it aside from greed overriding patient care, assuming the doctors in question know that injecting too much is an issue.

Why is it bad to inject too much HA? (this means over 30ml, but probably over 20ml in many cases).

1. Stretching the tissue
The tissue in the penis is stretched irreversibly, including the skin. If too much HA is injected it means that a reversible procedure has led to an irreversible outcome.
Put simply, if you increase your Girth from let's say 4.5 inches to 6.5 inches, and then decide you don't want HA anymore, you will be left with loose skin.
Picture an obese person that loses a lot of weight. Injecting too much turns a reversible temporary procedure into a permanent change.
If you increase your Girth by 2 inches with HA, you can not go back to your original penis.

2. Natural feeling / slushiness
HA wasn't designed to support such a large increase in size. With too much HA the penis will feel very soft, particularly if you are not fast at metabolising it and so are left with filler in the late stages of isovolumetric degradation a year or so later. A penis with 40,50,60ml of HA is likely to feel slushy after 18 months.
If you have just 10 or 20 ml you are more likely to metabolise it all before it turns to slush.

Putting to one side the isovolumetric degradation issue, when the filler is freshly injected even fillers with the most structure (Volux, Teosyal UD) cannot support 2 inches in Girth increase. The maximum increase with HA should be 1 Inch for this reason alone (to feel normal), and also so as not to stretch the skin (point 1. above).

3. Uneven reabsorption. This is made worse when the layer of filler is thick.

Cheap filler
The use of cheap, counterfeit / made in China, parallel imported filler, or even completely contraindicated filler (Genefill / Hyacorp) is common in the UK.

I am not sure how a doctor can read a warning pamphlet inside a box of Genefill which clearly says "contraindicated for use in the genitals" and still proceed to inject it.
There is a case we are dealing with today in which a well-known doctor on Harley St, with a big Andrology practice, told the patient he was injecting Voluma, showed the patient the box of Voluma (for the first syringes) and then proceeded to inject some other type of filler for the remaining 20ml (later discovered to be Genefill upon investigation).

If patients do not get better at asking for the stickers from the box of filler, and observing and counting every syringe that goes in, they will continue to be a) ripped off, and b) injected with who knows what.

Men seem much less likely than women to check on what is being injected.
I have come to form a view from talking to patients and support staff at other clinics that around 70% of the product being injected is not what the patient thinks they are getting.

It annoys me because for a few reasons. Aside from the ethics of patient consent (if you agree to have one thing injected and it is another product, then you have not consented), and aside from commercial fraud, it also makes the clinics using authentic filler seem more expensive.

The only way to compete with another clinic advertising 40ml of HA for £2,000 is to also use a lower grade filler.

For a 40 ml procedure using Genefill filler, it will only cost us £200 in raw filler.
For a 40 ml procedure using Volux it will cost more than £4,000 for the raw filler alone.

I have been tempted to name the doctors and clinics in the UK doing this.

Ellanse
Long term followers will remember how hesitant we were at first to inject Ellanse.
It took years before we were routinely offering it and usually only to repeat patients who had an idea of what they were getting into.

I still feel it is very risky for first-time patients.

1. Consider, what if some aspect of the patient's penile anatomy is not suitable for filler generally (for example loose pockets into which filler wants to migrate), or tight bands of skin that pinch in and cause an uneven shape. Patients are better to discover that are not suited for penis fillers with a reversible substance like HA.

Otherwise, if they are given Ellanse and discover they are anatomically a poor candidate, they can do nothing to fix the situation for years if the shape is wrong, the filler has migrated to the underside or any other issues.

2. Overall, despite Ellanse being a higher risk product (mainly the fact it can't be reversed), the results are generally better than with Hyaluronic Acid, and will unlike HA support a larger increase in Girth, to maybe +1.5 Inch, without compromising on hardness.

My ideal pathway into penis enlargement with Dermal Filler would be:

1. To begin with a small 6-10ml HA procedure (to practice moulding and to make sure the filler sits well in the penis / the penis is anatomically well suited to filler without the higher likelihood of issues such as migration).
2. Then 10-20 ml of Ellanse (over 2 or more visits) to bring the maximum gain to something like 1 - 1.5 inches.

One issue to consider with Ellanse. It can become difficult to inject more using a cannula after around 3,4 months. The cannula simply can't break through the new tissue stimulated by the Ellanse / PCL.

I am not sure which other information is useful to patients. Perhaps what I am sharing here is already known.

First of all I wish to thank you for being attentive to our request, we understand you're very busy and not focused on marketing lately for good reasons.
At the same time this forum is an invaluable source of informations for all potential patients in this very delicate area, and sometimes having the chance to get direct informations and/or opinions from the best practioners and sponsor of the site is a plus for all members and hundreds of lurkers as well.

There's non need ot mention other clinics directly, I'm sure we all know who you're talking about.
This is one of the main reason many people are still hesitant to undergo any procedure, the very first step is to have complete faith in the doctor chosen, and being here more often is certainly one of the best thing you can do to reassure patients or potential ones that they're in th ebest hands possible.

Of course an updated bef/aft photo page on your website is extremely important because it visually certify the good outcomes with the latest updated filler/procedure.
This is something that, to make an example, has been certainly made better by the unmentioned uk competitor, very active to keep the photo updated (even if only Flaccid), and that surely brought them many new patients (apart from the price offer for the reason mentioned).

But again to me, and probably I can speak for other members as well, your presence on the forum is more important than any picture.
An other sponsor, a well-know surgeon from Australia, gained an even greater credibility by being able to partecipate actively in many discussions here, posting and sharing his direct experience and knowledge, and conducting research and scientific publications about male penis enhancement.

It would be great to have you here a bit more often and maybe from time to time answering questoins that has not been covered already.

Your just gave good information in this post, maybe not eveybody knew your latest direction and suggestion, now it should be clear to everybody.

I'm certainly one of those candidates for HA procedure, as soon as travelling to UK will be a bit easier.
I know you have also a clinic in Belgium, but don't know if it's dr. Horn operating there, or aomeone else, this would be an other good information.

Again Francis tahnk you and welcome back!

Androfill wrote: I would be interested to know what patients are thinking about in regard to the HA and Ellanse procedures.

I agree some of our updates are from years ago now, geological timeframes in penis enlargement as one member put it.

I will share a couple of things I have come to conclusions on over the past couple of years. I am not a doctor, so these are conclusions based on patient results and feedback rather than medical science. Regardless I think some of the conclusions can help guide people.

Too much HA is being injected per patient.
We have stopped this at Androfill as far as I am aware and have had warnings on the website about injecting too much filler for over 2 years now.

However, almost every other clinic and doctor doing HA (even the good doctors) still inject far too much filler. There is no other way to explain it aside from greed overriding patient care, assuming the doctors in question know that injecting too much is an issue.

Why is it bad to inject too much HA? (this means over 30ml, but probably over 20ml in many cases).

1. Stretching the tissue
The tissue in the penis is stretched irreversibly, including the skin. If too much HA is injected it means that a reversible procedure has led to an irreversible outcome.
Put simply, if you increase your Girth from let's say 4.5 inches to 6.5 inches, and then decide you don't want HA anymore, you will be left with loose skin.
Picture an obese person that loses a lot of weight. Injecting too much turns a reversible temporary procedure into a permanent change.
If you increase your Girth by 2 inches with HA, you can not go back to your original penis.

2. Natural feeling / slushiness
HA wasn't designed to support such a large increase in size. With too much HA the penis will feel very soft, particularly if you are not fast at metabolising it and so are left with filler in the late stages of isovolumetric degradation a year or so later. A penis with 40,50,60ml of HA is likely to feel slushy after 18 months.
If you have just 10 or 20 ml you are more likely to metabolise it all before it turns to slush.

Putting to one side the isovolumetric degradation issue, when the filler is freshly injected even fillers with the most structure (Volux, Teosyal UD) cannot support 2 inches in Girth increase. The maximum increase with HA should be 1 Inch for this reason alone (to feel normal), and also so as not to stretch the skin (point 1. above).

3. Uneven reabsorption. This is made worse when the layer of filler is thick.

Cheap filler
The use of cheap, counterfeit / made in China, parallel imported filler, or even completely contraindicated filler (Genefill / Hyacorp) is common in the UK.

I am not sure how a doctor can read a warning pamphlet inside a box of Genefill which clearly says "contraindicated for use in the genitals" and still proceed to inject it.
There is a case we are dealing with today in which a well-known doctor on Harley St, with a big Andrology practice, told the patient he was injecting Voluma, showed the patient the box of Voluma (for the first syringes) and then proceeded to inject some other type of filler for the remaining 20ml (later discovered to be Genefill upon investigation).

If patients do not get better at asking for the stickers from the box of filler, and observing and counting every syringe that goes in, they will continue to be a) ripped off, and b) injected with who knows what.

Men seem much less likely than women to check on what is being injected.
I have come to form a view from talking to patients and support staff at other clinics that around 70% of the product being injected is not what the patient thinks they are getting.

It annoys me because for a few reasons. Aside from the ethics of patient consent (if you agree to have one thing injected and it is another product, then you have not consented), and aside from commercial fraud, it also makes the clinics using authentic filler seem more expensive.

The only way to compete with another clinic advertising 40ml of HA for £2,000 is to also use a lower grade filler.

For a 40 ml procedure using Genefill filler, it will only cost us £200 in raw filler.
For a 40 ml procedure using Volux it will cost more than £4,000 for the raw filler alone.

I have been tempted to name the doctors and clinics in the UK doing this.

Ellanse
Long term followers will remember how hesitant we were at first to inject Ellanse.
It took years before we were routinely offering it and usually only to repeat patients who had an idea of what they were getting into.

I still feel it is very risky for first-time patients.

1. Consider, what if some aspect of the patient's penile anatomy is not suitable for filler generally (for example loose pockets into which filler wants to migrate), or tight bands of skin that pinch in and cause an uneven shape. Patients are better to discover that are not suited for penis fillers with a reversible substance like HA.

Otherwise, if they are given Ellanse and discover they are anatomically a poor candidate, they can do nothing to fix the situation for years if the shape is wrong, the filler has migrated to the underside or any other issues.

2. Overall, despite Ellanse being a higher risk product (mainly the fact it can't be reversed), the results are generally better than with Hyaluronic Acid, and will unlike HA support a larger increase in Girth, to maybe +1.5 Inch, without compromising on hardness.

My ideal pathway into penis enlargement with Dermal Filler would be:

1. To begin with a small 6-10ml HA procedure (to practice moulding and to make sure the filler sits well in the penis / the penis is anatomically well suited to filler without the higher likelihood of issues such as migration).
2. Then 10-20 ml of Ellanse (over 2 or more visits) to bring the maximum gain to something like 1 - 1.5 inches.

One issue to consider with Ellanse. It can become difficult to inject more using a cannula after around 3,4 months. The cannula simply can't break through the new tissue stimulated by the Ellanse / PCL.

I am not sure which other information is useful to patients. Perhaps what I am sharing here is already known.

Having had 40 ml of HA since last March, I wish I had known this before I did it. I didn’t realize the more layers the more it would turn to slush . No clue what the right out is for me knowing this now. I wonder if I should get it dissolved and hit reset ? Ugh

I do appreciate that you took time to make this update especially in light of the fact you’re not looking for new patients .

Hi Tiritera, it was SO who reached out and reminded us to post.

All I can add is what I am hearing from patients at the clinic in terms of results, what I am hearing in the industry, and to share any problems I am seeing.

The well-known Australian surgeon whose surname begins with O is quite a rare find and a bit of a relief to have him in this murky industry.
Knowing that Dr O is posting I think there is not much I can add, except to confirm what he is saying is what we are seeing.

I suppose if two doctors/clinics are saying the same thing it provides more certainty.

Where we may also add to the forum is the experience in terms of patient numbers.
Aside from Dr C in Mexico we have probably seen the most penis filler patients, almost certainly the most HA to the penis patients globally.

It means we have seen more issues in the tail of the distribution, the 1 in 1,000 sorts of issues. Where there might be complication which is new to a doctor who has seen only 500 patients, we may have seen that complication 20 times already.

Dr Horn is not travelling to Belgium as often anymore due to Covid making travel more difficult so we are looking for another doctor in Belgium.

Thank you for the warm welcome.
I am not sure what happened to the patient who began this thread. Probably it is more likely he is happy than unhappy as anyone unhappy generally writes about it.

Do you know which filler you had?
40ml of Volux would hold up better than 40ml of Ultra 4 or most other products.

If it starts to feel slushy, then you can dissolve it away and hopefully be back to your original penis.

JoyToy
I dont think some people here in the forum really care for any good results. They seems to care more about monetize on it. I mean i got the reply if I want help 'I could pay for consulting'.


Hi Joytoy.

I have thought about this myself.

If you aren't paying for the consultation, then the reason the doctor is talking to you is they think they are going to sell you something.
If the doctor is counting on selling you something for the time they are taking, I wonder whether their advice is as impartial.

Personally, I would prefer to pay £200 for the consultation with no expectation of treatment. Then I am paying for the doctor's knowledge and time.

You are getting information from these doctors accumulated through many years of medical school, their costs are quite excessive in terms of premises insurances and so on.
It is often the same in other industries, you end up paying somehow for the free consultation.

In saying that, our consultations are free.
(Because we think we are going to sell you penis filler after you have taken the time to come).

"It would be very helpful to have an update from @androfill of the current situation/statistics about the procedure oucomes both with HA and Ellansè.
It would be very informative to know how many procedures have been performed during the last couple of years, if some tecnique-filler improvement has been made, and if the patients satisfaction rate increased."

In terms of HA, we very rarely see an issue that we can't dissolve away. Usually, complications are in terms of the shape / aesthetic outcome and could have been improved with better patient education and care around filler moulding. We have a section of the website on this which is being added to. www.androfill.co.uk/aftercare
Aside from this, we have not seen any infections in over 2 years, an infection remains our most material risk with the procedure, but still very unlikely at 3 / 1000 (0.3%).

We are treating one long term patient at the moment (ex fat transfer) who constantly has a bad reaction to HA in which the filler goes hard. He has had the HA removed and tried 2 more brands, but has the same issue.

For Ellanse, 2 issues 500 patients. Both issues were due to poor moulding and both were with first-time patients.
The issues were migrated filler (to the underside) and to the foreskin region. The issues did not look bad from photos, however, if ever you have a peppercorn side lump somewhere along your shaft which you can't remove it will be much more of a discomfort than it looks.

As Dr Horn is a surgeon, and as we have a surgical theatre here in the hospital, Dr Horn is able to remove any little nodules. But this means surgery and a fine scar.

In terms of technique:
Moulding has become more important.

When first injected filler is almost a liquid, it will likely move from where it was injected by the time the patient gets home.
Even if the filler is precisely injected it will move... which makes me a little suspicious of anyone claiming to have the perfect injection technique.
Regardless of how precisely it is placed, it is not yet integrated when first injected, and diffuses around, much more so in the penis than for filler in the face.

We have brought forward the moulding process so that patients are moulding the filler in their erect penis from day 1. It is easier to mould the sooner one starts.
We have experimented with different bandages and found that a hard 'sports strapping' bandage can help flatten out results and incorporated that as part of the patient's moulding instructions.
Particular care needs to be taken with Ellanse, as it tends to 'set' faster meaning that the moulding should ideally be done by the patient when erect within hours.

Being unable to get an erection in order to mould filler at home can add to the likelihood of unevenness.