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TOPIC: HA Long Term Outcomes

HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301833954

Your saying Dr C made you smaller? How so?

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301796605

Dr. Oates mentioned a new HA that was being produced there that was specifically for penis Girth enhancement by a company called HUGEL, but it hadn\'t been released to other markets yet. So I don\'t think that\'s the same HA and if Ultimate Volume has been out for a while and is that cheap, Dr. Oates and the other clinics would be using it. As for Dr. Kim, I\'ve seen several members on this forum complain about his injection technique and thought I recall one member saying he removed their Foreskin without their permission.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301795149

randomword1234 wrote: I am also curious as to how the new HA in Korea pans out in terms of how long it lasts and costs, I trust Dr. Oates will keep the forum updated on that front.

I do have some questions for Dr. Oates. In the event things do go wrong with Voluma or Ellanse, what are our options?

Dr. Oates, how would you handle treating the following if it arises in one of your patients

1. Granuloma from HA?
2. Granuloma from Ellanse?
3. Nodule from Ellanse?
4. Infection following injection with Ellanse?
5. Infection following injection with HA?
6. How would the patient and you be able to tell the difference between granuloma, delayed hypersensitivity reaction, and infectious process following an injection?

You don\'t really need to wait. I would email Dr. Kim and ask him. He uses Ultimate Volume Butyris HA by get this \"Dong ST\" not making it up! Anyways it\'s listed as a direct replacement and Superior product to Voluma and it supposedly lasts the same 18 months. Best of all it\'s cheap, you can get 40mls for $4500 US!! Travel cost and length of stay is obviously a concern. BTW Dr. Kim has probably been doing penis HA the longest.

Regards,
LL

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301794851

I am also curious as to how the new HA in Korea pans out in terms of how long it lasts and costs, I trust Dr. Oates will keep the forum updated on that front.

I do have some questions for Dr. Oates. In the event things do go wrong with Voluma or Ellanse, what are our options?

Dr. Oates, how would you handle treating the following if it arises in one of your patients

1. Granuloma from HA?
2. Granuloma from Ellanse?
3. Nodule from Ellanse?
4. Infection following injection with Ellanse?
5. Infection following injection with HA?
6. How would the patient and you be able to tell the difference between granuloma, delayed hypersensitivity reaction, and infectious process following an injection?

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301792169

chester wrote: Only one product I\'d consider, Ellanse. HA is soft and disappears, pmma is a health mystery and is permanent.


Ellanse is interesting but not perfect. Someone just posted Dr. C is offering it again? But it is also prone to the same issues as PMMA, Nodule formation. And if something goes wrong with a PCL (Ellanse) it\'s a waiting game, it\'s not reversible, only with time will it hopefully break down. The future is a longer lasting more affordable HA in my perspective, they are doing so in Korea already. But at the right price Ellanse may be an option.

Regards
LL

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301787955

Only one product I\'d consider, Ellanse. HA is soft and disappears, pmma is a health mystery and is permanent.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301787576

I didn\'t really get the impression from any resources I researched that Voluma would last 12 months. In fact Androfills website gives you an idea of retention for Voluma, \"Calculation example : Girth maintenance after 18 months : 6 syringes of filler needed to maintain penis Girth = ( '265 x 6 ) = '1,590.\" This would obviously vary from person to person but essentially at 12-18 mos 6ml for maintenance. Still expensive but safe and reversible. Dr. Oats does this calculation sound realistic?

LL

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301772080

Thanks Ultimate,

Getting followup has been hard. I think we will try and make a bigger deal of it and encourage participation in research.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301770972

I had the procedure with Dr Oates and i still have an Inch increase in Girth after 1 year.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301769419

as per our PM\'s mine has lasted 5 months so far w/ no loss of size but u must take into account that post procedure there is a lot of swelling and thus inflammation takes a while to go away. people confuse inflammation w/ product.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301764600

randomword1234 wrote: EmailedDr. C with several questions regarding HA. He states he does use Juvederm, will open the box in front of you, and provide the product control label.
Though he stated his experience with Juvederm (which I assume is Juvederm Voluma):


Not necessarily Juvederm XC is an older product uses what is called Hylacross technology for manufacture and is slightly cheaper. Voluma is slightly newer, uses Vycross technology (different length chains of HA) and is more expensive. Use the wrong product it won\'t last as long.

\"Hyaluronic acid is quite unpredictable both for the penis and the face. The manufacturer information is typically too optimistic; mine goes towards the other extreme.I haven't seen results that last more than one year, best case scenario.\"


According to North Valley Plastic Surgery\'s website (Clinic been doing HA in penis for 3 years):
How long will it last?The makers of Juv'derm ' claim that it can last up to a year. In many patients it can last a year but others it lasts several months less. VOLUMA is said to last at least two years. Everyone's body degrades Dermal Filler differently and we all have different skin, muscle, and tissues thickness.

Androfill\'s website:
\"' how long the filler will last: depending on the filler used, usually between 12 months and up to 18 months.\"

Dr. Oates has stated in this thread that absorption can be variable in some odd cases, but in general lasts years.



I emailed Dr. C to clarify if by Juvederm he is referring to Voluma, if so, it looks like half of these injectors HA are finding results lasting less than a year in most of their patients, whereas other injectors are claiming much longer results in their patients. Very disappointing news if Voluma lasting less than a year. I\'m curious as to the large discrepancy in product duration claimed between injectors. We need more long term HA patient reports to confirm experiences.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301764586

randomword1234 wrote: Dr. Oates, thank you for the reply, if you wouldn\'t mind I have a few questions:

1. In your patient who returned to your office yesterday, whom you injected 4 years ago, how many top ups did he have between the initial injection and your visit with him yesterday?

Actually I went to his office about using his database to promote CALIBRE. He has not had any top ups after his 2 rounds of 5ml each

2. Were you able to quantify how much girth that patient lost across that 4 year time period?

Did not get to see it as at his office
3. Regarding the professional athlete and the pneumonia patient, how long did it take for them to lose the HA? How much did they lose (all of it)? Did you reinject them?

About 3 months. Pretty much all of it. Reinjected with Ellanse.

4. What is your follow-up protocol for girth enhancement patients to know if they have lost or retained girth over time (do you call them, do you schedule follow-up appointment, or do you let them return on their own for top-ups and listen to their feedback)?

The problem is most guys don\'t come back for long term followup and most guys refuse to give us there email or ask to have no marketing/contact. This weekend we are presenting the results of our first followup on 25 guys (that is all we could get to respond to our survey) but it was all on psychological measures. It is on my blog here - www.calibreclinic.com.au/more-calibre-research/

5. How many patients have you injected in total for girth enhancement? How many of these patients were injected with Voluma?

About 150 individual patients, I don\'t know off the top of my head how many with Voluma. Currently using Ultimate from Teosyal - seems just as good maybe fewer issues.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301764172

EmailedDr. C with several questions regarding HA. He states he does use Juvederm, will open the box in front of you, and provide the product control label.
Though he stated his experience with Juvederm (which I assume is Juvederm Voluma):

\"Hyaluronic acid is quite unpredictable both for the penis and the face. The manufacturer information is typically too optimistic; mine goes towards the other extreme.I haven't seen results that last more than one year, best case scenario.\"


According to North Valley Plastic Surgery\'s website (Clinic been doing HA in penis for 3 years):
How long will it last?The makers of Juv'derm ' claim that it can last up to a year. In many patients it can last a year but others it lasts several months less. VOLUMA is said to last at least two years. Everyone's body degrades Dermal Filler differently and we all have different skin, muscle, and tissues thickness.

Androfill\'s website:
\"' how long the filler will last: depending on the filler used, usually between 12 months and up to 18 months.\"

Dr. Oates has stated in this thread that absorption can be variable in some odd cases, but in general lasts years.



I emailed Dr. C to clarify if by Juvederm he is referring to Voluma, if so, it looks like half of these injectors HA are finding results lasting less than a year in most of their patients, whereas other injectors are claiming much longer results in their patients. Very disappointing news if Voluma lasting less than a year. I\'m curious as to the large discrepancy in product duration claimed between injectors. We need more long term HA patient reports to confirm experiences.

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301759484

Dr. Oates, thank you for the reply, if you wouldn\'t mind I have a few questions:

1. In your patient who returned to your office yesterday, whom you injected 4 years ago, how many top ups did he have between the initial injection and your visit with him yesterday?
2. Were you able to quantify how much Girth that patient lost across that 4 year time period?
3. Regarding the professional athlete and the pneumonia patient, how long did it take for them to lose the HA? How much did they lose (all of it)? Did you reinject them?
4. What is your follow-up protocol for Girth enhancement patients to know if they have lost or retained Girth over time (do you call them, do you schedule follow-up appointment, or do you let them return on their own for top-ups and listen to their feedback)?
5. How many patients have you injected in total for Girth enhancement? How many of these patients were injected with Voluma?

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HA Long Term Outcomes 4 years 9 months ago #1301759250

Random,

I guess I don\'t count as a unbiased opinion but I am happy to say that HA lasts for years. Yesterday I saw the very first patient I did with HA 4 years ago. It was the cheapest HA I could get as I was doing it all for free. He still feels he is bigger than before the injection.
I had a guy come in a few months ago claiming it was all gone - he measured the same as in his post measurement 2 weeks after treatment (he then asked to have even more).

We have had a couple of rapid volume loss - 1 in a professional athlete the other got very sick with pneumonia (not sure if it was being sick/fever/antibiotics but the HA disappeared.

But loss of product has not been a problem over 2+ yrs

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