TOPIC: Anyone else holding off for now on Casavantes?

Mostly just info gathered here. I also googled it and it simply has far more variation in particle size than the other alternatives. I was already nervous about the variations in New Plastic.
I was all set to book my appointment, but I do remember some posts where his competitor in TJ (Passy, right?) was using Metacril and he was chided for using a sub par product.
******Ask the Experts
Can Metacrill be used in United States?
Mar 11, 2010I heard about Metacrill, which is a permanent filler. I heard that I can buy 10 syringes for $500 through Dr. Samy Passy. He sent me an email explaining that I could make a wire transfer to a bank in Madrid in his name and he will send me the package. He also told me that a doctor in NYC could make the injections for me. Have you ever heard about Metacrill...do you think it is safe and the method of payment is legit. Let me know what you think about this. I really appreciate everything you do for all of us trying to make sense of treatment options.Response from Dr. PieroneHello and thanks for posting.Metacrill is a PMMA product from Brazil. The quality of Metacrill is not good in that the particle sizes have tremendous variation. The issue with lack of uniformity of particle size is that this may increase the risk of late granuloma formation. That said, Metacrill has been used by some injectors in Mexico and Brazil for body lipoatrophy with a very low reported rate of granulomas or nodules. These injections are typically at deeper levels and there is a lower rate of granuloma complications when fillers are injected at deeper sites, presumably because of fewer immune cells in muscle compared with skin. I would be concerned about using this product for facial injection because of the quality issue.The bigger problem is that it would not be legal for a doctor to inject Metacrill in the United States because it is not FDA approved. So the product will do you no good here.Can Artefill be mixed (injected over) newplastic / metacrill PMMA?artefill (here in USA) be mixed with newplastic, metacrill or precise PMMA (the PMMA offered by... Read more 'Response from Gerald Pierone, M.D. 'WHAT BRAND OF PMMA OR ITS COMPONENTS SHOULD I GO FOR?in Rio has extensive experience with PMMA and uses Metacrill. Dr. Denis Valente in Puerto Allegre... Read more 'Response from Gerald Pierone, M.D. '

Tommygun wrote: The Metacril has some bad reviews as far as quality and consistency.
Some of you guys are I am sure looking for a r2 or r3. Will you still do it with the Metacril even though it is sub par?

IMO it is not fair to suggest that Metacrill is \"sub par\" unless you tell us what par is.

The Metacril has some bad reviews as far as quality and consistency.

Good reviews/opinions as well, e.g.
phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/sho...768724&postcount=472

Didn\'t Lemperle say in a reply to Smartman that a later version of NP was pretty much pure anyway? I suspect these products are continually evolving, only they can\'t relaunch every time they make an improvement. I doubt Linea is actually much, if any, different to the NP Dr has been using for the last year. I seriously doubt their engineering and production took such giant steps forward in the short space of time NP was off the market. They\'ve probably been steadily improving it for years and following the patent issues which caused them to cease production, they\'ve simply rebranded.

The long term effects of small particles is related to granulomas. It is suspected that 1 of 20 may develop them with Metacril between 5-10 years.

Would love to see medical documentation demonstrating such a high rate of complication. Also as previously mentioned, FBG\'s were many times more likely to occur in the face (nasolabial folds) than elsewhere in the body. Hundreds of Dr. Samy Passy\'s patients are 5-10 years post op without a single incidence of FBG. The current attack on Metacrill is particularly alarming as I recently received 28cc\'s of it. I would be very appreciative if one could provide literature that uniequivocally states that the incidence of FBG is 5% within a 10 year time period.

Miracle7x6Happy to be proved wrong but to the extent of my knowledge there is no scientific evidence that injections at deeper levels, such as in the penis, can generate such FBG incidence rate. On the contrary, and so far, my understanding is that FBG risk for injections at deeper level is very low.

hoddle10 wrote: phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/sho...2834294&postcount=26

I think you\'ve missed a post in which Lemperle cleared things up. The last NP he tested was like the new Linea Safe, which is my point. The rebranding wasn\'t done due to improvements in the product itself, but other reasons.

I read that post, its the one i linked in previous post.

Lemperle:
\"Good question ! I had requested PMMA samples from all 4 Brazilian manufacturers (with the help of Flavio Borges) in 2006. And these results were then published by Piacquadio in 2008. All contained > 50 % smaller particles.
In December 2010 I got a PMMA sample of NewPlastic in Mexico from the NewPlastic dealer of Casavantes, and this looked clean like the present Linnea Safe and probably is from the same PMMA manufacturer (in Korea, China or Europe).Whether this cleaner PMMA has been suspended since in NewPlastic by the same company Lebon, Porto Alegre, I do not know. Anyway, NewPlastic is removed from the market , and Linnea Safe now contains this cleaner PMMA.
Sorry for the confusion,and best regards,Gottfried\"


He couldnt make himself a rhym about it. Maybe this cleaner pmma has not been used in the NP, because of the leftovers of the rawmaterial for the older NP, that had to be used.
If NP and Linea safe would be the same then why do they look diffrent under the microscope. Diffrent concentration ?
what Concentration are NP and Meta microscope pics ?
Adjustment distance?
Im asking because i dont know. Anyone has the answer to the concentrationquestion.


Lemperle:\"Anyway, NewPlastic is removed from the market , and Linnea Safe now contains this cleaner PMMA.\"

So even if we assume \"ok NP could have been as good as this New Linea Safe\" (what i dont think ;D ) then it is now
Metacrill vs Linea Safe and if Dr Casavantes is only using Meta now, instead of the old same quality that NP might have had, and Linea has now. Then Metacrill is still a step backwards in quality.

And i would want at least to keep the old quality/purity standard by using Linea Safe. (If its not even a improvement)
Mainpoint i guess.
He should at least offer it as an option for patients!

greeetz

So, EQ, given your understanding and sensitivity to the FBG risk and its potential implications, could you share with us what has prompted you to take the PMMA plunge in the end?

zayne wrote: Realistically, what functional/nonfunctional effects will result from granuloma? An image search for \'penile granuloma\' doesn\'t exactly ease one\'s mind.

Some of this was discussed in the complications thread. I would encourage everyone to please read that thread.

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/Inf...MA-5395825?trail=150

Here is what I wrote (post #150) then and still believe today.

eqstudent wrote: I see your point. I guess one would not be able to differentiate the mildest granuloma and a lump. A lump or nodule is a small hard mass that will not change size over its lifetime. A granuloma is a small squishy inflammatory mass that will grow over its lifetime. In most cases it will present with swelling, inflammation, and pain. Note that if one reads the Salles 'Complication'' paper I posted earlier and used Lemperle's definition, 26 of the 32 cases are granulomas. Note that the 2 butt implants (deep) presented with pain and nodularity. A plastic surgeon I just spoke to, who has treated several moderate/severe filler granulomas said 'think of Kidney/Lima bean sized cold sores but in some cases more swollen and painful extending the length of your nasolabial fold.' Now imagine living with that condition for 4 months to 3+ years of treatment. He also said forget about surgical excision if used in penis augmentation. That situation would likely require a > 10 surgery reconstruction nightmare.

@EQ: Before anyone has this procedure, please look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this question. \"Am I prepared to deal with and live with the consequences of getting a FBG\"?Realistically, what functional/nonfunctional effects will result from granuloma? An image search for \'penile granuloma\' doesn\'t exactly ease one\'s mind.

aestheticgirth wrote:

Didn\'t Lemperle say in a reply to Smartman that a later version of NP was pretty much pure anyway? I suspect these products are continually evolving, only they can\'t relaunch every time they make an improvement. I doubt Linea is actually much, if any, different to the NP Dr has been using for the last year. I seriously doubt their engineering and production took such giant steps forward in the short space of time NP was off the market. They\'ve probably been steadily improving it for years and following the patent issues which caused them to cease production, they\'ve simply rebranded.

That are some of your thoughts of what could be. Your kinda saying NP/Meta is the exact same product then Linea Safe.

My thoughts of what could be is diffrent.
If it its the same Company producing NP/Meta and now Linea Safe (as Lemperle guesses but does not know, as all of us) then those manufacturers probably have Leftovers from NP/Metacrill, which still need to be sold to make profit out of it. Maybe for a lower price then the new product.

Even/despite (fuking english conversation) tho they might have now their new purer version of the product ready.

I guess the safest source, we can relie on is Prof Dr Lemperle.
And he says Linea Safe is alot more pure then the other products (NP/Meta) and with that more likely to be used without the result of FBG (granuloma).

Im def more willing to get pmma injection with a product that is considered more clean according to Dr Lemperle.


phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/sho...2834294&postcount=26

I think you\'ve missed a post in which Lemperle cleared things up. The last NP he tested was like the new Linea Safe, which is my point. The rebranding wasn\'t done due to improvements in the product itself, but other reasons.

aestheticgirth wrote: And before anyone has the procedure try to lower the chance of getting one of those FBG by getting the Doctor who injects you to use the most safest considered product.

It really does not change the central question. That is what we really need to understand. You can make the number in the \"unlucky\" pool as small as you want. Somebody is going to be in that pool and it could very well be you. Then what?That is the real question.

eqstudent wrote: Before anyone has this procedure, please look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this question. \"Am I prepared to deal with and live with the consequences of getting a FBG\"?

And before anyone has the procedure try to lower the chance of getting one of those FBG by getting the Doctor who injects you to use the most safest considered product.
According to the inventor of PMMA.

My thoughts.

supa wrote: I am not sure you have understood what (I believe) EQ means:

it is all well and good that Linnea safe is a new generation product; however, in contrast to Newplastic and Metacrill (used by Dr C. for years), Linnea safea\'s complication rate is not known. By definition.

hoddle10 wrote: It would be good if everyone who is/was planning on getting the job done soon to write Dr C. about the \"demand\" of using Linea Safe.

everyone? bad idea! not sure the good doctor would welcome the spamming

We are never complete with knowledge.We have no testimonies yet that fact(forumwise), but i doubt Linea safe has gotten worse then other products, and has now new risks. (possible tho but not even i am that skeptic)

Well rather enough people to make him aware of the patient orientation, then too few people. And most likely people who havent gotten NP or Meta because those people care more about it i guess. Remeber ONE penis !
We were always, more or less in the freaking dark.

Didn\'t Lemperle say in a reply to Smartman that a later version of NP was pretty much pure anyway? I suspect these products are continually evolving, only they can\'t relaunch every time they make an improvement. I doubt Linea is actually much, if any, different to the NP Dr has been using for the last year. I seriously doubt their engineering and production took such giant steps forward in the short space of time NP was off the market. They\'ve probably been steadily improving it for years and following the patent issues which caused them to cease production, they\'ve simply rebranded.

That are some of your thoughts of what could be. Your kinda saying NP/Meta is the exact same product then Linea Safe.

My thoughts of what could be is diffrent.
If it its the same Company producing NP/Meta and now Linea Safe (as Lemperle guesses but does not know, as all of us) then those manufacturers probably have Leftovers from NP/Metacrill, which still need to be sold to make profit out of it. Maybe for a lower price then the new product.

Even/despite (fuking english conversation) tho they might have now their new purer version of the product ready.

I guess the safest source, we can relie on is Prof Dr Lemperle.
And he says Linea Safe is alot more pure then the other products (NP/Meta) and with that more likely to be used without the result of FBG (granuloma).

Im def more willing to get pmma injection with a product that is considered more clean according to Dr Lemperle.


phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/sho...2834294&postcount=26

Having participated in these \"complications\" thread, chats, PMs and emails I know why most members are confused by them so I will leave these simple facts:

Most of us that get the penis procedure will not have a FBG or any other complcation.
Some of us that have the procedure done will get a FBG.The debate is over the exact size of most and some which at the end of the day is pretty silly when there is very little facts.

If you end up falling into the some group, and make no mistake a handfull of us will in the next 1 to 10 years, make sure you are able to live and deal with it. At that point theoritical complication rates are meaningless!

Before anyone has this procedure, please look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself this question. \"Am I prepared to deal with and live with the consequences of getting a FBG\"?