TOPIC: the switch to 10% pmma

I suppose it is theoretically possible that the 10% may have more than half the gain of the 20%. For example if the beads were more clumped together with the 20% you might have a situation where the same amount of new tissue encapsulates 2 beads for every one bead in the 10%, if that makes any sense ?

Hi Mikehok,
I think the doctor has to inject more volume of the smaller concentration than the higher concentration just to have the same gain.
I have asked this Q. to Lemperle and that was his answer :-
it is a simple calculation : I have counted that 20% Artecoll contains 6 million 40 micron beads, which means that 10% PMMA contains 3 million and 30% contains 9 million beads. All will be encapsulated with about the double or triple their amount of connective tissue. As you said, you will need to inject 3 times as much 10% PMMA than 30 % PMMA, and I imagine, Dr. Casavantes sees less lumps with 10% and therefore injects rather twice as often than twice as concentrated. I also injected a mixture of Artecoll (20%PMMA) 1:1 mixed with Lidocaine into an elderly\'s dorsum of the hands because it was a liquid and easier to be distributed under the skin. The penis is the same ! So stick to the 10 %.

@ Mikehok

Hey! Ok so basically it seems like gains are coming. I will update my thread now. Basicall on day 6 when I said the above I was still bruised and yes had no gains at all apart from the base which I thought was swollen.

I estimated the bruising would be gone by day 10 as before. But actually the day after I wrote this the bruising had all but gone. The day after my penis felt fuller not swollen just fuller and softer. So despite my better instincts and talk about waiting I measured and yes it is bigger.

I can only imagine that somehow my penis was retracting and tighter from the trauma and as I write this I remember something similar fom the FFT where a few days later after a top up there seemed to be no gain and then after ten days things had settled and relaxed and the gain appeared.

I cant think that collagen would form this quick and cause a gain in two days but my penis is certainly bigger.

Will post on my thread now.

@Justabitmore
You will note my post was in reply to Mustang2020 - I wasn\'t trying to rephrase your post in other words even it this is what it looks like. Your reply came while I was drafting my overdrawn reply which due to its length gave ample time for others to post in the meanwhile. So it is a coincidence that we both say very much the same thing, something which lends possibly more credence to our arguments.
Cheers,
HC

All good info. I think that Dr C and Wade and his assistants are great people. this is a win-win situation.

Can some one verify if the cost to purchase 10% is different than the cost of 20%?

@ Mustang

I was wondering the same. It probably is but as a lot of the cost is in the manufactoring and distribution I doubt its much more expensive!

@Zmann No offense taken here. Also, I agree on both accounts.

Not trying to offend anyone, but compared to the other options price shouldn\'t be the determining factor for most. The fact that this isn\'t Dr. Cs primary livelihood as with some doctors who won\'t be named is comforting for me.

I highly doubt the switch from 20% to 10% has anything to do with the cost of materials or a marketing ploy for more repeat business. I doubt anyone seriously considering it would flinch at the price being much more

Speak for yourself Zmann. I agree with mustang on this subject, I\'ve titrated my share of solutions in the lab, and never once has it been known for my dept to buy solutions with a lower molar concentration, since items are purchased in higher concentrations its fiscally cheaper to prepare a diluted solution from a more concentration one. As a TA, i know of it to be a very common practice to prepare a lower concentration out of a higher concentration of a given solution inorder to order to save my chem dept money. i hope his nurse is not preparing these solutions. this is way beyond his scope of practice and science background, Dr. Casavantes would find himself better off with any senior undergrad biochem student or graduate. these solutions & materials need to titrated in a approved medical laboratory with government regulation. Mexico can be a very shady place which i don\'t think many members are taking to , and so many short cuts are taken at the expense of someone else. If i decide to risk going through with this proceedure, I am going to ask Dr.Casavantes the hard questions. someone with a science & mid-level clinician background can easily put a physician on the spot to justify sound clinical judgement & practice. An open-attitude & dialog is going to be a huge indicator of my trust. You can\'t think of healthcare without thinking of greed these days, folks like mustang have horror stories they\'ve shared with us that cause my stomach to turn. S.O use to be the large skepitic on the original forum, he still is the voice of reason in my humble opinion, but while friends of the board are worshipping this extremely new therapy i know members like EP and myself will be the watchdogs of this therapy. I\'m already seeing too many preemtive and overly enthusiatic emotions concerning this treatment. A reputation can be glorified and also damaged, especially in healthcare. And being a foreign physician we can easily see them coming under more scrutiny than ever. And i wouldn\'t doubt if somehow Dr.Casavantes is indirectly updated about our little sewing circle\'s conversations. I admire his practice, but i implore him (directly), to think of us.
i have some more thoughts on this, but lets continue to exercise discernment in regards to the unknown spectrum of this therapy.

I\'ll end this thread with my favorite quote:

\"The warrior uses that touch of madness. For-in both love and war-it is impossible to foresee everything.\" -Paulo Coelho

~Coolhandluke

I agree with Zmann.

I highly doubt the switch from 20% to 10% has anything to do with the cost of materials or a marketing ploy for more repeat business, I think it all has to do with safety and aesthetics and I believe we will be seeing more of a drop down to 5% as well. Dr. C could easily charge more for the procedure and I doubt anyone seriously considering it would flinch at the price being much more (although I did make sure to get locked in at the $1500 rate for future procedures!) . When talking with the staff them they all seem pretty overwhelmed by the sudden increase in PMMA patients as Dr. C has a whole practice he runs and doesn\'t solely rely on this procedure as of right now.

@ Mustang

Glad to know its going well for you will check your thread later. Yes they will build cost into anything so who knows. I think the answer for me is....1500 dollars times two or three for the kind of results I have gotten so far its been worth it and if there is an added safety or aesthetic benefit then even better!

I do not know. I just can\'t imagine 20% plastic Balls costing the same as 10%!!! 20% is twice as many Balls in the same fluid. It cost money to mkle these tiny PMMA Balls and to make sure they are nice and round with no sharp edges....

Some one can find out the cost?

@Mustang2020
Actually it might even be the same price or more costly given that 10% would open access to specific filler applications which might generate more revenue than too massive a higher concentration, such as more precise facial sculpture for example. So I can\'t say for sure if pricing is related to the quantity of the initial raw material PMMA pellets, or to the availability of special purpose concentrations designed for different results according to their respective properties. This would make sense as if we do get better results using 10% for Phalloplasty then they could even make this level of dilution the most expensive one...
HC

May be, but many times it is more to do with marketing cost strategy than the cost to manufacture a product....I can see the cost being 40% less or more for different percentages....not sure, just guessing. It would be nice to know.

So far, my 10% 1st session has no to minimum irregularities...We will have to wait and compare notes in the next few weeks.