TOPIC: Infections, Complications, Risks of PMMA?

Smartman,

I\'m not stating there is 100% proof that the beads are making it to distant organs and that they are causing major problems. I am stating that it is a potential problem that needs more investigation. I think we need to dig further before we conclude that there are no cases. EQ was able to find a study recently regarding migration in humans when many were stating there is no evidence for that happening in humans. Since migration has been shown in both animal and human models now, we really do need to consider the possibility of these beads making their way to organs. I understand your point that no studies that we currently have found show this as a major issue, but will this change when this stuff is in a body for longer than the studies have tracked? Some people may have this stuff for 70 years if they get it while young. I think we need to do more research into the possible consequences of bead migration to organs.

@ eq
thanks eq! sorry hard to read the paper on my black berry yesterday.

Justabitmore wrote: ...do we know how long after her injections her Necrosis started?

within 24 hours re the de Castro paper\"Approximately 24 hours before she had been submitted to a cosmetic treatment on her face, a bioplasty with PMMA, performed by an experienced plastic surgeon. \"

Sparticus,
So we agree now it depends on the site of the injection and the technique of the doctor and NOT on the product per se (e.g.Newplastic) in regard of Necrosis.

(( I don\'t think the major concern with PMMA is Necrosis from injection as cannulas are now used, rather the concern is the possible effects from migration )) .

In regard of migration, I agree with you we should talk about it, but I have some points I need somebody to help me in answering these Q.\'s :-

We have read that the migration could happen with the small beads, correct me if I am wrong??
1- As we know the worst PMMA product was Arteplast (1989-1994) it had the highest number of small, irregular and electrostatic charges beads, correct? So it was injected in people around 22 years ago. I had never heard of one case of distant organ disease ( I am not saying there is NO proof of migration of these small beads what I am saying if it did happen--> there is no serious illness from this ). BTW I have mentioned before that Dr.Cohen said about Arteplast it has only 2.5% a chance of FBG formation and the best treatment for it just leave it it will go away by itself, and he did not mention about migration or serious illnesses of these old products.
In my opinion If I want to check for any complication (e.g. migration and its complications) for any product , it\'s 1st generation will be my best material for any research, sure it will have the worst complications, I hope we all agree about this point ??
2- If it was true that Artefill contains <1% small beads (<20 micron).
Why don\'t we have serious ill-patients from it during the last 5 yrs ?

3- Many ladies (not only from the US) travel to Brazil and Mexico for Butt\'s enhancement (each one has e.g. > 500 cc of Brazilian product in her Butt) 10x more than the penis.
So why there is no one case of serious ill-patient (e.g. lung or liver) in these ladies (e.g.in the US) I am not talking about lumps or FBG.

4- Also many HIV-patients with lipodystrophy from the US and from other countries travel to Brazil and Mexico (as you know they are immunocompromised patients so they are more prone to serious complication).
No serious organ disease in the US has been shown from any migration of the small beads.

5- Believe me I dont need any proof for that , I just want to help the others about PMMA ((the bad and the good informations)) .
In our Forum there are guys who have PMMA for few months (short period) and I have it for 15 yrs (I think it is a long period) I am still healthy (no liver or lung problem but in regard of my brain ?? I dont know, lol).
Of course I understand if somebody says I dont believe you SM that you had Artecoll 15 yrs ago, I will tell him I agree with you absolutely and I cannot prove it for you but do you believe that there are patients did have PMMA injection in 1989 ???
I will always like and support healthy discussion and I will never argue and force people to believe my points, I think you do remember sparticus when I have mentioned before about the need of an antibiotic for PMMA injection and I said actually you dont need it (that was the words of Lemperle) you did disagree with him (you said as far as I remember it is a serious statement and he shouldn\'t say that) and I didnt argue with you that time, I said he is right he should be worried about a risk of infection, and then you asked me if I could ask Dr.Cohen (who is affiliated with Artefill) directly, I accepted your request and I did ask him the same Q. his answer was the same as Lemperle.
Everyone should know the truth about any product and it\'s possible complications (i.e. complications due to the product per se and not the technique) and then he should decide what is the best for him.

I really enjoy having discussion with everyone in this forum, actually I feel we are like brothers helping each other.

I agree with Dr.C. it is the technique and not the product , my doctor (Dr. Samy Passy) a plastic surgeon in Rio. he has good experience with PMMA bioplasty and he is so confident in using a sharp needle which I dont agree with him even if I had good result with him and he usually injects more volume than Dr. C. ( it doesn\'t mean that is good) 20-30 cc , in my opinion I would prefer Dr.C.
Check the pic. where Dr.Samy used a sharp needle in a patient who has already a penile prosthesis www.metacrill.com.br/us/respenis.htm
and if you check the next pic. where he used metacrill to augment the frontal bone (forehead) of a patient, I had a similar depression but on one side of my cheek bone due to a child trauma and I had Artecoll in 1996 in Frankfurt thank good I have still a good result. www.metacrill.com.br/us/resfrontal.htm

I\'m attempting to resolve some of the \"post issues\" but am having no problem viewing any of the aforementioned comments. If you still have an issue with any of the posts here (and in particular, #20), please let me know, thanks.

Could anybody answer Mike Hok\'s question, phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5424847&trail=15#1 ?

In particular, which problems exactly is Dr C. trying to avoid?

Evil Pnievel wrote:

supa wrote: Does anyone know the overall granuloma complication rate on Dr C.\'s total number of patients (wrt PMMA to the penis)? After all, he has started PE via PMMA some five years ago.

If I am not mistaken, we have had approx. 20 - 25?

Those are just registered members. At the old site we\'d usually have 7 times as many lurkers visiting per day as we did members. Most people just want to read rather than contribute or ask questions. I think someone posted that Dr C is now doing 2 of these per day and we can tell from the changes he\'s made to the procedure over the last 6 months, that prop to PhalloBoards, he wasn\'t doing too many PE procedures. So I\'d say thanks to PhalloBoards over 100 guys have had it done and with any procedure it\'s inevitable that once lots of people start having it, there will be complications. Complications themselves aren\'t so much the problem, but how they are fixed is. If Kenalog really is working then that is fantastic news. For those guys who aren\'t sure about PMMA and are worried about complications, seeing them resolved with a minor procedure like injecting Kenalog is a big deal. My fear has never been migration, but that if there is a problem, the PMMA would have to be cut out. In my opinion having the stuff cut out, will often lead to loss of shaft skin. Basically the more complications we see that are then resolved simply with an injection of Kenalog the better. Obviously I don\'t literally mean it\'s better that more guys have complicaitons, but just that those who do, get them resolved pretty easily.

And while I may have recommended that Comingfromwi should consider opting to wait, I have had some members ask if this may be tied to my own reservations on the matter.
As of today, I have not experienced any complication and am extremely happy I made this decision. I felt that I fell into the above \"2\" groups and was in a situation to assume the risks involved. If I had faced complications, I would have done so knowing that without medical intervention sex was nearly impossible anyways. These are the feelings from someone who had to hope \"Snugger Fits\" didn\'t slip. I\'m not attempting to garner sympathy, only some clarification as to why I felt justified in pursuing the risks involved with anything Phalloplasty. Granted, PMMA\'s record versus other methods were remarkable in the short term, and the price point made it a reality. If I were to go back 100 times I\'d make the exact same decision. Does this mean I feel that I\'m clear from future complications? No. But it does mean that I was willing to accept those possibilities given my situation pre-op. And that is what I ask of anyone to do, that is all

@Comingfromwi
I know we\'ve chatted before and in my personal opinion, I\'d say to wait it out. You are young and are better off saving in times like this. The only reason I\'d recommend PMMA to someone your age is if your size was genuinely impacting your sex life in a way that was unhealthy. Pardon me, I have forgotten your current measurements, but if you aren\'t painfully small, you may find more benefits in waiting.The method is still new to the Online PE Scene, so it would be preferable at your age to wait out and assess longer term results (a year +)This method could improve with time and/or the discovery of alternative methods could show up on the scene. Keep in mind I was about to consider FFT before PMMA arrived.Chances are you are average (again, pardon me I don\'t recall your stats). I\'m not saying that is or isn\'t a reason to get the procedure, but what I AM saying is that partners at your age are far less experienced and far less understanding of their own sexuality to really appreciate added Girth (versus an average Girth), at least in my opinion.In the end, the decision is yours and I just hope that you assess all the pros & cons of getting it done now (versus way later or never). None of us here can deny the pleasure of obtaining added Girth, however, all of us here can certainly appreciate the consequences of hasty decision making. Regardless, if you decide to, we\'ll be supporting ya, and if not, we\'ll be here discussing all other viable options that show up on the scene.
As always, I tend to advocate Phalloplasty (regardless of method) to 2 groups of men: 1. the under-average and/or micro, and 2. Men in marriages/LTR\'s with the support of their significant other. This does not mean I am against or will not support those who choose to undergo this procedure who are not in the aforementioned groups, but I would certainly recommend they assess their situations before \"signing up.\" You only have one Dick.

wow glad to come back and see all he feedback/advice from people. So there is a chance that in years to come I will have to have the PMMA touched up? I guess it\'s just weird because I\'m only 22 and lets say in 20 years I need it touched up.. Dr C may be retired or...I don\'t know. I\'m just kind of freaking out watching my bank account balance accrue interest while I make a final decision on whether or not to go through with the procedure (or 2)

supa wrote: Does anyone know the overall granuloma complication rate on Dr C.\'s total number of patients (wrt PMMA to the penis)? After all, he has started PE via PMMA some five years ago.

I think I read he\'s only had one granuloma when injecting below the fascia on any part of the body. He doesn\'t think granulomas occur when injected below the fascia and this is why Artefill studies, which inject into the skin itself aren\'t really that relevant to us.

Re: Granuloma\'s complication rate.Given Artefill\'s trackrecord ( phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5403442 ), it would be useful to have Dr C\'s clinical evidence on Newplastic.Btw, it is my understanding that Dr C\'s technique is based on water carriers and therefore Artefill is not a suitable product.

@supa I don\'t personally, but that is a very good question to know the answer to.

Does anyone know the overall granuloma complication rate on Dr C.\'s total number of patients (wrt PMMA to the penis)? After all, he has started PE via PMMA some five years ago.