TOPIC: PE After PMMA

I am scheduled for round 1 of PMMA with Avanti at the end of this month and have been doing PE over the last 20 years off and on. I have become much more consistent in the last year and gained some length, but not much Girth. Two months ago, I also incorporated the Angion Method into my routine and have noticed lots of new vessels growing and a boost in EQ.

My routine for the last couple months has been the following:

Day A

• 5 mins -- BFR Bends
• 15 mins -- Python Clamped BFR Glans Pulsing (90 sec sets)
• 10 mins -- Sabre Strikes w/ a 9 Inch steel bolt
• 10 mins -- Angion Method 1
• 20 mins -- Angion Method 3

Day B

• 2 hours vac extending w/Apex Extender at 7-9 lbs (10 min interval sets)

I alternate between Day A and Day B for an every other day schedule. Day A, then Day B, then Day A, then Day B; no rest days. I really want to do this schedule as soon as I can after the 4-6 weeks of recovery/rest from round 1 of PMMA.

A few questions:

1. Has anyone gained length via vac extending after having PMMA done? If so, how much?
2. When did you reincorporate it after having a PMMA session done?
3. If familiar with Angion and doing Sabre Strikes, is this a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt even after lest say a couple months of letting the collagen settle?

Thanks for your input! I am currently 7.3-7.6" BPEL (based on EQ) and have a goal to put on another 1.5" of length in the next 2 years with a long term goal of 9" BPEL.

If familiar with Angion and doing Sabre Strikes, is this a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt even after lest say a couple months of letting the collagen settle?

Please don't do this to yourself. This method is neither safe nor effective and only creates fibrosis and scar tissue, NOT "collagen." You may notice "gains" from the damage you are causing, but this PE method is a surefire way to give yourself PD. If you are interested in non-surgical lengthening, please go to a sed Urologist who has plenty of experience in the field of Male Enhancement. Even though most of it is located outside of your body, remember that the penis is an organ and needs to be treated with great care. Yes, seeing a professional is going to cost more up front than DIYing your PE, but I guarantee you will save yourself thousands of dollars and countless hours of pain and anxiety in the long run by paying to see someone who can get you the results you're seeking without triggering Peyronie's disease and then having to go see someone else years later to fix the horrific results after PD sets in. I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your enlargement journey, but I also strongly caution you against this particular method.

If familiar with Angion and doing Sabre Strikes, is this a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt even after lest say a couple months of letting the collagen settle?

Dumbest thing I've ever read.

Thanks for your input @Rejuvall .

What are your thoughts then on Angion 1 and 3?

Hyperbol wrote:

If familiar with Angion and doing Sabre Strikes, is this a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt even after lest say a couple months of letting the collagen settle?

Dumbest thing I've ever read.

Coming from the guy who is injecting synthetic research chemicals into his Dick. Appreciate your expertise around how they function and the amount of force involved.

Something I find frustrating is that over on the Reddit subs, you talk about PMMA and they tell you how stupid you are.

You come here and talk about PE methods that have worked for users in a safe manner and you are told you are wrong and dumb here.

Such little wiggle room from both sides of the aisle. I want to benefit from all safe forms of penis enhancement. Quick rush to judge the other side.

Rejuvall wrote:

If familiar with Angion and doing Sabre Strikes, is this a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt even after lest say a couple months of letting the collagen settle?

Please don't do this to yourself. This method is neither safe nor effective and only creates fibrosis and scar tissue, NOT "collagen." You may notice "gains" from the damage you are causing, but this PE method is a surefire way to give yourself PD. If you are interested in non-surgical lengthening, please go to a sed urologist who has plenty of experience in the field of male enhancement. Even though most of it is located outside of your body, remember that the penis is an organ and needs to be treated with great care. Yes, seeing a professional is going to cost more up front than DIYing your PE, but I guarantee you will save yourself thousands of dollars and countless hours of pain and anxiety in the long run by paying to see someone who can get you the results you're seeking without triggering Peyronie's disease and then having to go see someone else years later to fix the horrific results after PD sets in. I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your enlargement journey, but I also strongly caution you against this particular method.

I don’t find this to be very helpful to be honest.

I have gained about an inch and a half of length in my life, have better EQ than I did 20 years ago, and find my penis to be in pretty good health / shape.

I don’t think you had enough information to answer the way you did. Maybe questions like, “What kind of force are you using? What does the technique look like?” Any questions like that would be helpful to inform the thread here.

To be clear, I didn’t ask anyone about whether you thought what I’m doing is dumb or not. I’m asking anyone that has experience doing it safely who has gone through PMMA and these techniques.

If my question isn’t welcomed @Skeptical_One , my apologies. I wish I could ask over at Reddit, but I get the same treatment there as I do there when I try to talk about melding these two worlds. If you want to delete the thread all together cause you as well deem it unsafe, then I will respect your decision.

Just my thought. the PE method you are using causes some trauma, could be micro trauma and the body releases cell to heal. So, in some ways similar to how PRP works. I was told by the Doctor with PRP treatment the blood is centrifuged to extract platelet rich plasma with growth factors, this enhances healing.

He said under normal conditions, the platelet rich plasma only swarm an area in the body if there was an injury or trauma. By extracting and injecting to certain parts of the body, this is to aid healing without the trauma. it is now used for tendonitis, wrinkles, alopecia and ED.

For your PE method I think the difficulty is how to replicate, and especially calibrate the amount of trauma caused. What's the sweet spot or safe range. Is it suited for PE or there are other more established safer methods. Just my opinion.

Yup wrote: Something I find frustrating is that over on the Reddit subs, you talk about PMMA and they tell you how stupid you are.

You come here and talk about PE methods that have worked for users in a safe manner and you are told you are wrong and dumb here.

Such little wiggle room from both sides of the aisle. I want to benefit from all safe forms of penis enhancement. Quick rush to judge the other side.

This is a safe space and a respectful space. I am not happy with Hyperbol's comment, but he's been a Veteran Member and I will not make drama out of one comment; instead I politely ask he be thoughtful before submitting messages in the future (thanks). Unless comments are of out-of-pocket and/or in violation of Forum Rules, I ask all parties refrain from insults moving forward.

@Yup questions are welcome as long as they are respectful and relevant (and haven't been asked many times before, since there is a Phallo-Guide & Search function after all). The point of this forum is for open discourse regarding all matters penis enlargement. My goal is that all readers become better decision makers & informed consumers, without the judgement of their peers.

This is a Fraternal Community after all, and we ought to be mindful of the greater goal fellas --> getting bigger

Skeptical_One wrote:

Yup wrote: Something I find frustrating is that over on the Reddit subs, you talk about PMMA and they tell you how stupid you are.

You come here and talk about PE methods that have worked for users in a safe manner and you are told you are wrong and dumb here.

Such little wiggle room from both sides of the aisle. I want to benefit from all safe forms of penis enhancement. Quick rush to judge the other side.

This is a safe space and a respectful space. I am not happy with Hyperbol's comment, but he's been a Veteran Member and I will not make drama out of one comment; instead I politely ask he be thoughtful before submitting messages in the future (thanks). Unless comments are of out-of-pocket and/or in violation of Forum Rules, I ask all parties refrain from insults moving forward.

@Yup questions are welcome as long as they are respectful and relevant (and haven't been asked many times before, since there is a Phallo-Guide & Search function after all). The point of this forum is for open discourse regarding all matters penis enlargement. My goal is that all readers become better decision makers & informed consumers, without the judgement of their peers.

This is a Fraternal Community after all, and we ought to be mindful of the greater goal fellas --> getting bigger

Understood. Thanks for clarifying.

I genuinely want to use both disciplines to my advantage and am looking for any insight others with similar aspirations and hopefully similar experience with the methods I have been employing can speak into.

I initially thought your question was specific to Angion method which I have no experience with so it went over my head a bit but I see you’re asking a more general PE question as it relates to PMMA now.

I extend with the Penimaster Pro vac cup and the Apex extender and I pump as well.

With regard to extending: I track my bone pressed stretched Flaccid length very closely. Prior to my round 1 PMMA procedure, my BPSFL was 18.2 cm. Immediately after it was 16.7-16.8 cm.

By week 4 I was measuring 17.1, still without doing PE but using the stretcher provided by Avanti for several hours each day. So I chalk it up to that and the natural healing process.

I’ve only introduced extending in the past two weeks (about 8 sessions total) with low time and tension, targeting 2-3% difference between pre and post BPSFL. I’m at about 17.4 today.

Hopefully that is a satisfactory data point for questions 1 and 2.

If familiar with Angion and doing Sabre Strikes, is this a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt even after lest say a couple months of letting the collagen settle?

Please don't do this to yourself. This method is neither safe nor effective and only creates fibrosis and scar tissue, NOT "collagen." You may notice "gains" from the damage you are causing, but this PE method is a surefire way to give yourself PD. If you are interested in non-surgical lengthening, please go to a sed urologist who has plenty of experience in the field of male enhancement. Even though most of it is located outside of your body, remember that the penis is an organ and needs to be treated with great care. Yes, seeing a professional is going to cost more up front than DIYing your PE, but I guarantee you will save yourself thousands of dollars and countless hours of pain and anxiety in the long run by paying to see someone who can get you the results you're seeking without triggering Peyronie's disease and then having to go see someone else years later to fix the horrific results after PD sets in. I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your enlargement journey, but I also strongly caution you against this particular method.

I don’t find this to be very helpful to be honest.

I have gained about an inch and a half of length in my life, have better EQ than I did 20 years ago, and find my penis to be in pretty good health / shape.

I don’t think you had enough information to answer the way you did. Maybe questions like, “What kind of force are you using? What does the technique look like?” Any questions like that would be helpful to inform the thread here.

To be clear, I didn’t ask anyone about whether you thought what I’m doing is dumb or not. I’m asking anyone that has experience doing it safely who has gone through PMMA and these techniques.

If my question isn’t welcomed @Skeptical_One , my apologies. I wish I could ask over at Reddit, but I get the same treatment there as I do there when I try to talk about melding these two worlds. If you want to delete the thread all together cause you as well deem it unsafe, then I will respect your decision.

Thanks for your input @Rejuvall .

What are your thoughts then on Angion 1 and 3?

I apologize that I misunderstood your questions and that my answer to your third question made you feel like I was calling you dumb. That was not my intent.

We see several repair cases and Peyronie's cases every month that are men who either went to a healthcare provider who didn't know what they were doing, or men who DIYed their penis enlargement and caused a lot of damage to their penises doing so, then had to limp in through our side door out of embarrassment and debilitating physical and emotional pain. I don't want to see that happen to you or anyone else ever again. Your third question asked if there was "a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt," and my answer is that absolutely yes there is a concern.

As to the Angion methods, in my professional opinion (though I am not a physician myself), those are not safe either. But I am happy to ask Dr. Carney for his opinion for you when he is in office again if that would make you feel better.

From what I understand, the purpose of the Angion methods is to stimulate blood vessel growth and therefore promote better blood flow thereby "healing" the erectile dysfunction. Men with ED cases caused by insufficient blood flow can generally get these results by undergoing external counterpulsation treatments under the care of a physician who is experienced with EECP. This is much safer than trying things on your own when you have no way of gauging or controlling the amount of force or pressure you are using on yourself, which is one of the big reasons DIY PE methods are not safe. If you're interested in learning more about ECP, we have a great video about it up on this page .

Again, I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your journey.

Rejuvall wrote:

If familiar with Angion and doing Sabre Strikes, is this a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt even after lest say a couple months of letting the collagen settle?

Please don't do this to yourself. This method is neither safe nor effective and only creates fibrosis and scar tissue, NOT "collagen." You may notice "gains" from the damage you are causing, but this PE method is a surefire way to give yourself PD. If you are interested in non-surgical lengthening, please go to a sed urologist who has plenty of experience in the field of male enhancement. Even though most of it is located outside of your body, remember that the penis is an organ and needs to be treated with great care. Yes, seeing a professional is going to cost more up front than DIYing your PE, but I guarantee you will save yourself thousands of dollars and countless hours of pain and anxiety in the long run by paying to see someone who can get you the results you're seeking without triggering Peyronie's disease and then having to go see someone else years later to fix the horrific results after PD sets in. I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your enlargement journey, but I also strongly caution you against this particular method.

I don’t find this to be very helpful to be honest.

I have gained about an inch and a half of length in my life, have better EQ than I did 20 years ago, and find my penis to be in pretty good health / shape.

I don’t think you had enough information to answer the way you did. Maybe questions like, “What kind of force are you using? What does the technique look like?” Any questions like that would be helpful to inform the thread here.

To be clear, I didn’t ask anyone about whether you thought what I’m doing is dumb or not. I’m asking anyone that has experience doing it safely who has gone through PMMA and these techniques.

If my question isn’t welcomed @Skeptical_One , my apologies. I wish I could ask over at Reddit, but I get the same treatment there as I do there when I try to talk about melding these two worlds. If you want to delete the thread all together cause you as well deem it unsafe, then I will respect your decision.

Thanks for your input @Rejuvall .

What are your thoughts then on Angion 1 and 3?

I apologize that I misunderstood your questions and that my answer to your third question made you feel like I was calling you dumb. That was not my intent.

We see several repair cases and Peyronie's cases every month that are men who either went to a healthcare provider who didn't know what they were doing, or men who DIYed their penis enlargement and caused a lot of damage to their penises doing so, then had to limp in through our side door out of embarrassment and debilitating physical and emotional pain. I don't want to see that happen to you or anyone else ever again. Your third question asked if there was "a concern of striking the sides of the shaft with a large steel bolt," and my answer is that absolutely yes there is a concern.

As to the Angion methods, in my professional opinion (though I am not a physician myself), those are not safe either. But I am happy to ask Dr. Carney for his opinion for you when he is in office again if that would make you feel better.

From what I understand, the purpose of the Angion methods is to stimulate blood vessel growth and therefore promote better blood flow thereby "healing" the erectile dysfunction. Men with ED cases caused by insufficient blood flow can generally get these results by undergoing external counterpulsation treatments under the care of a physician who is experienced with EECP. This is much safer than trying things on your own when you have no way of gauging or controlling the amount of force or pressure you are using on yourself, which is one of the big reasons DIY PE methods are not safe. If you're interested in learning more about ECP, we have a great video about it up on this page .

Again, I sincerely wish you the best of luck on your journey.

Thanks for your response @Rejuvall .

I would, for a layman, consider myself to be fairly measured and methodical in my approach to PE. I have been doing it for 20 years and never had an injury and have better erection quality, more size, and more sensitivity than I did when I was 21 years old. I understand the concern you have when you are missing a lot of information and context. I can now see that the way I worded my question lacked some important context, but assumed the community would grant me the assumption that I am going around what I am doing in a safe manner.

There is a large difference between using a 2 foot long steel bolt striking it at the side of your penis like you are Babe Ruth versus using a much smaller one with relatively light force that isn't causing any concerning trauma to the tissues. I believe that if you saw what I am doing, you would say that those aren't "strikes" so much as "firm taps". It's really not that hard. I have jacked off as a kid with more force than what I am doing with the "strikes" that would arguably be causing more trauma.

Angion Method has within 2 months increased my EQ in ways I didn't think were possible outside of Cialis. I have new vasculature popping up all over and my wife loves the firmness and new vessels. Combining this new vasculature and EQ with 2-3 rounds of PMMA really excites me.

I am not careless in my approach and have a very real mentality of yea, this is my only dick, let's be careful. I feel more concerned about doing PMMA by a longshot versus doing sabre strikes; yet I am trusting the community here both present and past to form the conclusion that its going to go well for me if I do my due diligence on education and the proper hard work on aftercare.

I think with how long I have been doing it and the safe track record I have, I should be considered as someone that knows what they are doing; but I do know there are some guys out there that are too YOLO in their approach and get injuries. I have seen it on other forums for many years, so you are right in that sense.

I do understand your sentiment of safety and respect it. To be clear though, I don't condone careless and dangerous PE, but that's not what I am doing with my penis.

richardgaines wrote: I initially thought your question was specific to Angion method which I have no experience with so it went over my head a bit but I see you’re asking a more general PE question as it relates to PMMA now.

I extend with the Penimaster Pro vac cup and the Apex extender and I pump as well.

With regard to extending: I track my bone pressed stretched flaccid length very closely. Prior to my round 1 PMMA procedure, my BPSFL was 18.2 cm. Immediately after it was 16.7-16.8 cm.

By week 4 I was measuring 17.1, still without doing PE but using the stretcher provided by Avanti for several hours each day. So I chalk it up to that and the natural healing process.

I’ve only introduced extending in the past two weeks (about 8 sessions total) with low time and tension, targeting 2-3% difference between pre and post BPSFL. I’m at about 17.4 today.

Hopefully that is a satisfactory data point for questions 1 and 2.

Yes @richardgaines ! Thank you!

Definitely more of the answer I was hoping for.

I am going to start a spreadsheet before my procedure and track going forward my BPSFL; good idea. Do you measure BPSFL right after a session when you have a little edema going on?

I just want to make sure I don't put a sleeve on for vac extending too soon. How many days/weeks out from your procedure did you start vac extending and feeling confident about it not shifting anything around you didn't want shifted? Or did you more so just go on AD's recommendations of 4-6 weeks? I was planning on taking a 6 week break from all PE.

As far as my Angion questions; I assume it may be a long shot to find others that actively do it, so I have realistic expectations there I think.

Off-topic a little, but what did you end up gaining on your round 1 for pmma with them as of this point?

Thanks for your response!

I felt comfortable using the PMP as it attaches to the glans only and doesn’t use a sleeve over the shaft, so it wasn’t based off a recommended timeline per se. With the generic vac cup and sleeve, I’d feel comfortable using it at week 6. I’m at week 6 now and there is definitely no migration of the filler even if I massaged as hard as I could.

Regarding measurements, yes I do measure pre and immediately post and there is edema present so perhaps not the most accurate measurement so I tend to shoot closer to 3% delta rather than 2%. If you’re on the gettingbigger subreddit then you’re probably familiar with these guidelines popularized by Perv.

My measurement have been pretty steady for a couple weeks. Pre round 1 I was a uniform 5.0-5.1” throughout the base to circ line then a bit thinner at the neck. Now I’m 6.1” at the base, about 5.5” midshaft, then 5.9” at the circ line. I posted a picture in my progress thread a few days back. Round 2 is scheduled for August!