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TOPIC: PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM

PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702948

  • Ozymandias
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Hi everyone, I am Ozymandias, but i was on the older forums under the nickname of “Poyajierro”. Glad to see this forum is still alive. Kudos to Skeptikal and stuff.

I not totally out on the idea of getting PMMA done in the future, as I continue to see good outcomes overall, since 2011.

My main concern is regarding the Immune System. Knowing how it works, although the microspheres get surrounded and encapsulated by collagen, and these microspeheres are small enough to be “protected” by vascular capilaries that allows the phagocytic cells to work properly if some type of infection happen during the rest of our lives, I still wonder if the fact that these microspheres continue to be foreign bodies, can cause any type of low grade but permanent reaction activity of the Immune System that yields to long term problems.

I ask to other members that may know better than me about the Immune System, as well as members who had PMMA done for more than 5 years if they suffered some Immune related problem.

Thanks in advance, and, if you remember my older alias, I’m from Spain, sorry if my language is not 100% correct. I’ll do my best.

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PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702976

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Up.

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PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702979

Yes I think it does cause long term inflammation but its localized to the penis luckily. Fat causes inflammation. Thats why having lots of body fat is unhealthy it causes inflammation all around the body. Since the inflammation of PMMA is localized to the penis I think its not as bad. Yes is causes inflammation but its not as much as being overweight and having diffuse inflammation. Im not an immunologist though. You would be better off lean and mean with PMMA in your pencil than chubby without PMMA as long as you aren't allergic to it- you would have less bodily inflammation. People that are fat live along time too- think of Warren Buffett- he eats like crap and he's almost 90.

I think I would test for PMMA allergy before getting PMMA. I might actually swing by the hardware store later to get some and then tape it to my belly while I sleep to see if anything happens. Note- Hardware store PMMA (Plexiglass) is not medical grade like Linnea... Imagine if I had allergic reaction to the plexiglass- think I would get PMMA? I would be getting Ellanse at that point. The problem with getting hardware store PMMA is that it might have impurities that trigger allergy and so we wouldn't really know if it was an impurity or the PMMA....

"Yes. Patients undergoing cement implantation [with PMMA cement] occasionally
develop serious systemic symptoms, such as hypotension,
hypoxemia, arrhythmia, cardiac arrest, any combination
of these or, at worst, unexpected death, the so-called bone
cement implantation syndrome (BCIS). The occurance of BCIS is known as up to 5%."

"Occasional allergies to MMA occur but are also rare (there are people allergic to gold!)."

"Animal studies have proven that monomers (Monomers are powdered form- like powdered cement each little microscopic grain is a monomer- where a brick is a polymer; in our case methylmethacrylate would be a monomer which this study says is cancerous in animals but the polymer which would be a PMMA microsphere according to this study is different) can lead to carcinogenesis. However, PMMA is routinely used as a bone cement in orthopedics and as denture materials in dentistry presently. The critical concentration of the residual monomer might play a critical role in allergic reactions."

"In my point of view, after polymerization (not a monomer but a polymer) PMMA is no more toxic. From my implant pathology experience, PMMA particles do not induce an extensive inflammatory response. Typically, it is observed macrophage activation and fusion followed by tissue fibrosis (foreign body reaction type)."
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Last edit: by johnyyasdf.

PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702980

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johnyyasdf wrote: Yes I think it does cause long term inflammation but its localized to the penis luckily. Fat causes inflammation. Thats why having lots of body fat is unhealthy it causes inflammation all around the body. Since the inflammation of PMMA is localized to the penis I think its not as bad. Yes is causes inflammation but its not as much as being overweight and having diffuse inflammation. Im not an immunologist though. You would be better off lean and mean with PMMA in your pencil than chubby without PMMA as long as you aren't allergic to it- you would have less bodily inflammation. People that are fat live along time too- think of Warren Buffett- he eats like crap and he's almost 90.

I think I would test for PMMA allergy before getting PMMA. I might actually swing by the hardware store later to get some and then tape it to my belly while I sleep to see if anything happens. Note- Hardware store PMMA (Plexiglass) is not medical grade like Linnea... Imagine if I had allergic reaction to the plexiglass- think I would get PMMA? I would be getting Ellanse at that point. The problem with getting hardware store PMMA is that it might have impurities that trigger allergy and so we wouldn't really know if it was an impurity or the PMMA....

"Yes. Patients undergoing cement implantation [with PMMA cement] occasionally
develop serious systemic symptoms, such as hypotension,
hypoxemia, arrhythmia, cardiac arrest, any combination
of these or, at worst, unexpected death, the so-called bone
cement implantation syndrome (BCIS). The occurance of BCIS is known as up to 5%."

"Occasional allergies to MMA occur but are also rare (there are people allergic to gold!)."

"Animal studies have proven that monomers (Monomers are powdered form- like powdered cement each little microscopic grain is a monomer- where a brick is a polymer; in our case methylmethacrylate would be a monomer which this study says is cancerous in animals but the polymer which would be a PMMA microsphere according to this study is different) can lead to carcinogenesis. However, PMMA is routinely used as a bone cement in orthopedics and as denture materials in dentistry presently. The critical concentration of the residual monomer might play a critical role in allergic reactions."

"In my point of view, after polymerization (not a monomer but a polymer) PMMA is no more toxic. From my implant pathology experience, PMMA particles do not induce an extensive inflammatory response. Typically, it is observed macrophage activation and fusion followed by tissue fibrosis (foreign body reaction type)."



Thanks for your response.

I agree with the fat comparison. However, what is really dangerous is the amount of the thing. Our bodies can deal with some fat with no problem. There may be some inflammation but not enough to disrupt homeostais and create heatlh problems. So the dose is what makes the difference.

So, assuming that the guy have no mayor health related problems, and get a total PMMA amount of 30 to 50 cc’s, the question is: can PMMA create complications in our Immune System activity long-term, to the point that it can be life (or health) risky?

Food for thought.

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Last edit: by Ozymandias.

PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702983

The body walls off the PMMA with fibrosis. If you look at the microscope slides showing PMMA 10 years in there is just a bunch of collagen around them- in successful cases. If it goes wrong you see giant cells (angry macrophages) around the microspheres

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PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702989

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johnyyasdf wrote: The body walls off the PMMA with fibrosis. If you look at the microscope slides showing PMMA 10 years in there is just a bunch of collagen around them- in successful cases. If it goes wrong you see giant cells (angry macrophages) around the microspheres


Yes, macrophages and neutrocytes (among others) doing their thing.

Thank you for your time.

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Last edit: by Ozymandias.

PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702992

I got some pmma plexiglass for free from a local plastic supply company and I'm putting it on me to see if I get a rash... So far so good. Some people are actually allergic to it.

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PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702996

I have looked into PMMA myself as alternative to HA and with PMMA, you just have the risk that your immune system does not like it, regardless what people might say. This is how statistics works always, if 90% have no problem, you might be the 10% having the issue. And there is no way in telling if your immune system won't behave like this. That just comes with the procedure.

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PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308702999

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GoodDay wrote: I have looked into PMMA myself as alternative to HA and with PMMA, you just have the risk that your immune system does not like it, regardless what people might say. This is how statistics works always, if 90% have no problem, you might be the 10% having the issue. And there is no way in telling if your immune system won't behave like this. That just comes with the procedure.


Thank you for your response and time.

It is obvious that your body does not like it, the Immune System does not like any type of foreign body, meaning any kind of microorganism or protein that it is not recognizable by our body and can potentially cause problems. But the way our immune system works in this case is the same process for everybody.
Since the body cannot erradicate or absorb PMMA through phagocytosis, it decides to surround the microspheres with granular tissue (collagen, fibroblast cells and capillaries).

Ok, perfect, everything under control. But, they continue to be foreign bodies, and although they are surrounded, encapsulated and isolated, I still wonder if this can cause some chronic autoimmune response to the point that produce damage to the immune system itself, which can derivate to long-term health issues.

That’s what we are discussing here, even if the PMMA behaves like a living implant.

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PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308703000

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johnyyasdf wrote: I got some pmma plexiglass for free from a local plastic supply company and I'm putting it on me to see if I get a rash... So far so good. Some people are actually allergic to it.


Interesting. Thank you.

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PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308703054

johnyyasdf wrote: I got some pmma plexiglass for free from a local plastic supply company and I'm putting it on me to see if I get a rash... So far so good. Some people are actually allergic to it.


There may be some confusion here - I've not heard of a PMMA & allergy risk (at least as it pertains to its use as a Dermal Filler) and I think you may be confusing it with the Allergy test required with the American iteration of PMMA (Bellafill).

You see, Bellafill uses a bovine carrier (as opposed to a cellulose carrier used by Avanti Derma and others) which can pose an allergy risk to some (albeit rare) - and this is why you are required to take the allergy test before getting that specific type of PMMA filler injected.

I suppose there could technically be an allergy risk to PMMA itself (??), but given what is presently known, it would be very low on the "risk-tier" list.

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Last edit: by Skeptical_One.

PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308703057

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Skeptical_One wrote:

johnyyasdf wrote: I got some pmma plexiglass for free from a local plastic supply company and I'm putting it on me to see if I get a rash... So far so good. Some people are actually allergic to it.





There may be some confusion here - I've not heard of a PMMA & allergy risk (at least as it pertains to its use as a Dermal Filler) and I think you may be confusing it with the Allergy test required with the American iteration of PMMA (Bellafill).

You see, Bellafill uses a bovine carrier (as opposed to a cellulose carrier used by Avanti Derma and others) which can pose an allergy risk to some (albeit rare) - and this is why you are required to take the allergy test before getting that specific type of PMMA filler injected.

I suppose there could technically be an allergy risk to PMMA itself (??), but given what is presently known, it would be very low on the "risk-tier" list.



Yes. It seems there is no evidence of allergy risk with PMMA LINNEA SAFE.

You can check the LINNEA SAFE website. They have a section which is called “Studies”, where you can find all the most relevant studies regarding PMMA, including those made by Dr. Gottfried Lemperle, Dr. Chacur, etc.

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Last edit: by Ozymandias.

PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308703058

There is a small percentage of people that are allergic to PMMA. 1/1000 chance...

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Last edit: by johnyyasdf.

PMMA & IMMUNE SYSTEM 1 year 2 months ago #1308703061

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johnyyasdf wrote: There is a small percentage of people that are allergic to PMMA. 1/1000 chance...


1/1.000.000 I would say with the new PMMA’s. It is more pure in it's composition and the new carrier is virtually allergic reaction free.

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