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TOPIC: PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications?

PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 3 months ago #1308698375

  • jacknimble
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I just got off a zoom call with Dr. Casavantes who was very good with answering all my questions and I definitely would feel comfortable with him work on me.

I'm still not sure where I land between PMMA and Ellanse....Dr. C. strongly recommended Ellanse because it's 'temporary' since I am pretty concerned about lumps/irregularities, however I don't think it really makes me feel any better about it, just because I might have to live with those issues for 'only' 5 or 6 years (although from all the reports here it sounds like the stuff might well never go away either)

Is there any real data out there so far about whether one or the other of these products has more or less problems, as far as clumps, granulomas, irregularities, and all the most common complications? If not do we at least know what the anecdotal evidence in the form of member reports has to say?

Frankly, it seems to me that if anything Ellanse kind of has to be the riskier option even if it does go away, because then you have to get the procedure done again. I can do two sessions with PMMA and I'm set for the next 50 years, I only rolled the dice twice. Vs. twenty Ellanse sessions over 50 years (if it dissipates after 5 years for example) now the odds that I'm going to be living with a wacky result for 5 years at least have gone way up. So I'm ten times more likely to have issues for 5 years vs. one tenth the risk of having issues for the rest of my life.

Not to mention you add up a lifetime of Ellanse sessions you could buy a house with that. So I guess I'm leaning towards PMMA. Or even more so leaning towards nothing at all to be honest...

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Last edit: by jacknimble.

PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 3 months ago #1308698376

Hey there, just got Ellanse L from Casavantes done about 2 weeks ago. Complications? The product moves a lot and even though I went above and beyond the post-care I have a cosmetic bump and a small part on the underside of my shaft where my skin stuck, both of these are way less noticeable or undetectable when erect. However, product also moved to my scrotum and seems like they're irritating nerves, but it also might just be that my body is still adjusting/healing. Hard to say at this point. I can't speak to PMMA, it was a hard pass for me because of the life long permanence, although there are members here who have had great results so I can't dismiss it, it's just not for me. Others here have had great experiences with Ellanse, for me it's been a bad experience but I'm still healing up so time will tell. If you choose to go the Ellanse route, there are 4 different tiers of it (S, M, L, E) with expected product life's of 1, 2, 3 and 4 years respectively. If you read on Ellanses site, they base the expected life span of the L and E based on testing results gathered from the S and M product concentrations, not from directly testing the L and E products themselves. Dr Casavantes mentioned to me that a patient of his specifically requested the S product for it's short lifespan should complications arise and I imagine you could request that too. I wish I took a closer look at HA for it's reversibility, but the price made me hesitant. So my advise is if you're set on getting a filler, start conservative and pick the product that's best for YOU, not your wallet.

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PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698730

I spoke with Francis at Androfill (London) today and I plan on having Ellanse instead of PMMA. Reason?

PMMA
PMMA is relatively permanent filler. You will need to fly to Panama. It's used as bone cement in orthopedics, but it's also used industrially for shoe's, furniture and under floor laminates. Being a synthetic product (it's also known as plexiglass or acrylic) it can cause irritation with some people. What if you're one of the unlucky people to have an allergic reaction?
Links: PMMA toxicity
I'm not an expert, so would suggest that you do your own research before deciding. Make an informed decision.
I apologise if I kick up a storm, because there are forum members that had it done and I respect them. I would just want to know every possible argument before having it done.

HYALURONIC ACID (HA)
Hyaluronic acid (HA) is temporary filler and it lasts around 18 months. This is the advised first step to take prior to having ANY filler, because it is natural, easy to mould (so you can learn how to shape it correctly on your shaft) and if there are any problems, it can be dissolved swiftly and painlessly.
Hyaluronic acid (HA) gradually disperses in to the body as a natural substance over 18 months, depending on which brand you select.
With HA, you will lose girth gradually over the 18 month period.

ELLANSE
Ellanse lasts up to 4 years (depending on the version). Over the 4 year period, you're unlikely to lose any girth.
Then, as you approach the 4th year, it all dissolves at the same time during the final month or two.
I was told this by Dr Francis at Androfill ....obviously results vary between individuals!

WHY CHOOSE ELLANSE?
New research, techniques and discoveries are been made. By choosing something temporary, you have the option to switch to a better option in the future.
Between Ellanse and Hyaluronic acid, experienced people usually go for Ellanse because it lasts longer, its harder (so it feels more natural on an erect penis) and by lasting 4 years it's also cheaper.

I have never had any procedure done, so I plan to first go for Hyaluronic acid, followed by Ellanse after.... but I'm contemplating skipping HA and going straight for Eslanse, because I'd like to avoid my shaft getting poked with needles as much as possible.
Not everyone is compatible with fillers, this is why I was advised to choose Hyaluronic acid first.
Androfill offer a small discount on taking the HA first, as a way to encourage safety in ensuring you are a compatible candidate.


Make a progress thread and keep us updated on your progress.
I wish you success.

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Last edit: by Liberati.

PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698731

@Liberati

Well thought-out. Great post!

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PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698732

I agree, great post. It's nice to know that a clinic is financially incentivising prospective patients to make conservative, reversible choices first. Props to them.

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PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698742

Liberati wrote: PMMA
What if you're one of the unlucky people to have an allergic reaction?
Links: PMMA toxicity


From this link:

29th Mar, 2012
Masahiro Yamada
Tohoku University
Yes. Patients undergoing cement implantation occasionally
develop serious systemic symptoms, such as hypotension,
hypoxemia, arrhythmia, cardiac arrest, any combination
of these or, at worst, unexpected death, the so-called bone
cement implantation syndrome (BCIS). The occurance of BCIS is known as up to 5%.


This is the first time I read about such a devastating possible complications that may occur as a result of PMMA. Is this true? This part scared me AF: "Hypoxemia, arrhythmia, cardiac arrest, any combination of these or, at worst, unexpected death".

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PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698750

Herbert_West wrote:

Liberati wrote:
This is the first time I read about such a devastating possible complications that may occur as a result of PMMA. Is this true? This part scared me AF: "Hypoxemia, arrhythmia, cardiac arrest, any combination of these or, at worst, unexpected death".



Peanuts kill people, but I never saw a peanut getting arrested.
Allergies and "possible side effects" usually only affects a small percentage of the population.

For example, here are the "possible side effects of Aspirin" Aspirin : confusion, convulsions, difficult breathing, loss of consciousness, seizures, yellow eyes and skin, swelling of the face, fingers, or lower legs
Aspirin is a mild over the counter medication and I'm sure that most of us haven't experienced those side effects either. Point is, you might be perfectly fine.

  • If you wanted to research it, you could consider looking in to the acidity levels of the shaft (which I assume is quite low) where PMMA is injected and compare it to the amount of acidity that's required to break down PMMA?

  • What temperature can an erect penis reach and compare that to the lowest temperature required (and over how much time) before we see chemicals in PMMA unbond and biodegrade?
    For example, when I drink from a water bottle that was left in a hot room, it tastes different to me ...but I assume this is a different chemical composition of PMMA?

I haven't done enough research in to this use for PMMA to feel comfortable about having it done on myself. There are probably a few more questions that I would want answered. That's the only reason why I'm cautious about PMMA. Without having done the research myself, I personally wouldn't get this procedure done based on assumptions alone.

Penuma sounded amazing and I saw no negative reviews, even in the media over the course of many years.... I almost had it done myself. So, I learned not to just take peoples word on things and I try to follow up with a bit of my own research. This forum is filled with a wealth of knowledge, so I'm sure you're fine and maybe someone else here can dispel any doubts with links to the source of their information.

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Last edit: by Liberati.

PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698756

Herbert_West wrote:

Liberati wrote: PMMA
What if you're one of the unlucky people to have an allergic reaction?
Links: PMMA toxicity


From this link:

29th Mar, 2012
Masahiro Yamada
Tohoku University
Yes. Patients undergoing cement implantation occasionally
develop serious systemic symptoms, such as hypotension,
hypoxemia, arrhythmia, cardiac arrest, any combination
of these or, at worst, unexpected death, the so-called bone
cement implantation syndrome (BCIS). The occurance of BCIS is known as up to 5%.


This is the first time I read about such a devastating possible complications that may occur as a result of PMMA. Is this true? This part scared me AF: "Hypoxemia, arrhythmia, cardiac arrest, any combination of these or, at worst, unexpected death".


This has to do with a bone cement implantation! Otherwise, these complications are virtually non-existent nor applicable to PMMA when used as a dermal filler in the penis skin. Context is important!

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PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698757

Liberati wrote: Being a synthetic product (it's also known as plexiglass or acrylic) it can cause irritation with some people. What if you're one of the unlucky people to have an allergic reaction?


PMMA in it of itself is biologically inert. The "allergen" risk comes from the bovine carrier found in the American iteration/brand of PMMA, Bellafill. You're required to take an allergy test prior to injection, so this risk is outright eliminated. Could a freak allergic reaction happen? Maybe, but with what's presently known, I suspect it happens so rarely that you might as well never get a dental crown or blood drawn if your risk threshold is that poor, and I'm saying this to everyone lol.
.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sir_Michael

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Last edit: by Skeptical_One.

PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698760

Ok that makes sense.

However, what do you think about it's biodegradability over the years?
It really won't break down at all inside the shaft over 50 years or so?

That's my other concern about it. You know with all the talk about plastic and its affect on people's health these days. Then again I probably drank so much bottled water that a little bit more wouldn't hurt :p

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PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698761

Liberati wrote: Ok that makes sense.

However, what do you think about it's biodegradability over the years?
It really won't break down at all inside the shaft over 50 years or so?

That's my other concern about it. You know with all the talk about plastic and its affect on people's health these days. Then again I probably drank so much bottled water that a little bit more wouldn't hurt :p


50 year outlook? I'll be quite frank, most men contemplating elective procedures on their penis are looking to get the next best 20+ of their peak/prime, everything else is a cherry on top, lol. Pardon the dark humor, but is there really any studies in excess of 20+ years regarding any of the materials being used inside of us "electively" (cosmetic/aesthetic medicine)? Weren't silicone breast implants a big thing in the 90's, only to be recalled, only to maybe be re-considered?

With what's available to us now, we can only assume that PMMA has the resiliency to last a long time, or I could be wrong. This is also one of a few reasons why I still operate this forum, to assess the long-term efficacy of these procedures. For transparency's sake, I had PMMA injected in 2011 with zero instance of complication, and nothing since to have raised an alarm worth seeing a doctor over.

At some point when you become an informed decision maker, it becomes all about assessing risks & benefits, your motivations, and your outlook.
.

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Last edit: by Skeptical_One.

PMMA vs. Ellanse worse for complications? 2 years 2 months ago #1308698787

JackNimble,

No, no-one has ever compared the 2. In fact only Dr C could really do it as he is the only person who uses both. And you only have to follow up for say 5 yrs to get an idea. We just finished the intake for a study after 2 years and this was a short term study. It takes a lot of work to do them well and quite expensive esp when not getting sponsored by the industry. But it would be great for Dr C to do it.

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