PhalloBoards - An Online Community to Discuss Penile Girth Enhancement

Capo710 wrote: Hey guys I’m looking for recommendations for a good dr to gain some permanent girth in California. I’d love to go to Avanti but my partner can’t leave the country for a while so I’m looking at other options. Thank you

Contact Dr. Tsay (Orange County) , Dr. Luis Lee (Northern California), Dr. Victor Liu (Beverly Hills and Bay Area) , and Dr. Brandeis (Northern California, P-Long Protocol) to consider your options.

Avoid any Clinics that offer penile implants to augment your penis if you are NOT suffering from ED, as well as large volumes of silicone oil filler (i.e. not using micro-droplet technique consisting of volumes of 10 cc's/mL's or less), or really anyone not vetted by the PhalloBoards and/or its Community.

If it's your first-time, you may want to consider more temporary options, especially if you can't travel abroad; Hyaluronic Acid (HA) has a strong safety profile and is offered by the vast majority of (vetted & screened) PhalloBoards Sponsors. Many end up liking it and continue to pursue it, while others may prefer less lifetime maintenance and opt for Ellanse or PMMA. You won't know until you try.

Just be sure you have realistic goals in mind, sufficient funds to accommodate subsequent visits, and a sound state of mind and sound motivations moving forward.

Good luck.

I second Avanti Derma's take on Ellanse. Many recipients of the filler are reporting much longer retention than originally projected by the manufacturer, which is actually great news for penis enlargement patients. Of course, Hyaluronic Acid (HA) is a good starting point and it isn't unusual for some Clinics trial HA first to see how well your penis acclimates to fillers in general. You may also find you like HA and stick with it, especially given its healthy safety profile if you come across a version/brand with better overall retention.

Truthfully I'm not sure what brand of HA Moorgate uses, and depending on the nature of its cross-linking & quality, may not be the most ideal iteration of HA for penis enlargement (pure speculation on my part if you've seen such a dramatic loss in a month's time @Kara101349 ). Typically you don't start looking at topping off any reductions until about a year (give-or-take a few months) post-op, so either you're a rare outlier (someone who breaks down foreign bodies rapidly on the extreme end), or the quality of the HA isn't ideal for penile application. This is open speculation on my part because I have no knowledge of what brand of HA is being employed, how/where it's being sourced, etc.

Fat transfer is an option as well, but I cannot vouch for the efficacy or quality of Moorgate's FFT work, I've only heard/seen their dermal filler results.

If you wish to remain in Europe, Androfill of U.K. or Dr. Horn's own Independent Clinic in Brussels, Belgium can provide HA, and Ellanse is available in the U.K. (I am awaiting on word about Ellanse's availability in Belgium). The only other options for Ellanse that are trustworthy are the aforementioned Avanti Derma in North America, as well as a Clinic or two in Australia, but I haven't been in touch with the Aussies in a bit so don't know the current status there.

Through my clinical experience, I have found that both hyaluronic acid (HA) and PMMA fillerpolymethylmethacrylate (PMMA) fillers can be expertly and safely employed for penile augmentation, whether they are used together or in a sequential approach, to meet the diverse preferences and objectives of my patients.

Hyaluronic acid fillers are particularly valued for their temporary and reversible attributes, presenting a less risky proposition for individuals exploring penile girth enhancement without a long-term commitment. These fillers deliver instantaneous results in girth expansion and are generally well-accepted by the body, exhibiting a minimal likelihood of adverse reactions. One of the standout benefits of VolumaHA fillers is their adjustability, allowing for fine-tuning to achieve the desired aesthetic and tactile outcomes.

In contrast, PMMA fillers are recognized for their enduring results and are chosen by those who desire a more permanent augmentation. The robustness of PMMA is attributed to its microscopic spheres that maintain their position beneath the skin's surface, thus offering a sustained enhancement in penile circumference. However, given the non-reversible nature of PMMA fillers, it is imperative to engage in a comprehensive consultation to ensure that patients have a clear understanding of the long-term commitment and are well-informed of the potential risks and implications.

While each type of filler has distinct characteristics that might make one more suitable than the other depending on individual circumstances, there are no intrinsic contraindications to using them in a sequential manner. This flexibility allows for a customized treatment plan that can evolve over time to align with the changing desires or satisfaction levels of the patient.

Hello @Abc123
Low and tight is the ideal circumcision in preparation for a nonsurgical phalloplasty. All of the others are secondary but better than no circumcision at all.
The difference between loose and tight is the amount of penile body's skin left and how relaxed it is.
Tight skin helps keep the filler in place; low scar allows the injector to place the filler as close as possible to the corona of the glans.
As mentioned by @hyperbol , it is a good idea (for cosmetic reasons) to leave a small area of the tight mucous membrane (where the cannula cannot go under) to maintain a neck.
If your surgeon is open to suggestions, you should go for low and tight.
DrC Avanti Derma

evolution10wrx wrote: better written, I want to increase the thickness of the penis in the healthiest and most FDA approved way.

As Dr. Sullivan pointed out, there is no FDA approved penis enlargement filler (or method) per-se. These dermal fillers (Hyaluronic Acid, PMMA, Ellanse, Radiesse, and Renuva) are used off-label into a layer of the penile shaft skin to create volume (simplest way of putting it). These fillers however, have been FDA approved for other specific reasons, none of which indicate girth enhancement, hence the off-label use (which is legal). I should note that Ellanse is still not FDA approved in the U.S. and is only available abroad.

In my personal opinion, Hyaluronic Acid (HA) is arguably the safest filler given that it already exists naturally in the body -- medical device manufacturers have cross-linked them to behave as dermal fillers to increase the volume of the skin. They are temporary in nature and somewhat reversible too with the use of a special enzyme to breakdown the filler if necessary. The trade-off with temporary fillers is that you will have to periodically top them off, and the rate at which HA breaks down/reabsorbs varies person to person. A safe bet is once a year, and you'll often times not need nearly as much volume to get back to your size-goal because not all of the HA will have diminished by then. I call this a trade-off because while you wish to seek out the safest option, you'll have to accept that maintenance comes along with it.

A counter example would be something permanent like PMMA (Bellafill in the U.S.). Due to its permanence, it can be very difficult and invasive to remove all of the PMMA in the event you have an undesirable result or complication. The trade-off here is that while it isn't as manageable as HA in terms of reversal/complications, you won't have to top it off periodically once you've achieved your final size goal. I should note that Bellafill is FDA approved and by and large is a safe filler too, relatively speaking.

So as you can see, some people prefer the peace of mind of HA in the event that they have undesirable results or complications because they are easier to manage, or would like to trial girth enhancement due to HA's temporary nature. On the flip side, permanent options like PMMA or dermal graft surgery offer a sort of "one & done" solution (with some potential subsequent touch-up appointments) which is a life-long convenience but can come with unforeseen challenges, despite complications being uncommon. You have to assess your own risk threshold, size goals, and what trade-offs are more compelling.

Hello @mantas ,
Can you elaborate on your statement about having your foreskin retracted for the last five years?
My response could differ depending on your response, but this is what I can say at the moment:
Avanti Derma physicians qualify prospective patients using a self-assessment table (see attachment).
As you can see, being uncircumcised does not disqualify patients but makes them "less than ideal."
It may look simple, but preserving the function of the foreskin is complicated. On the one hand, we need to keep it free of the filler; on the other one, we don't want to create a visible transition between the enhanced area and the foreskin.
Also, the foreskin gives a natural sliding function to the rest of the penile skin. This sliding capability of the skin is restricted in the circumcised individual.
In the uncircumcised individual, the bundle skin/soft tissue filler creates abnormal volume that slides towards the base during penetration or when pulled, creating the accordion effect.
So, even if you keep your foreskin retracted, its mere presence creates the same limitations.
Uncircumcised individuals are at a crossroads: either they undergo a moderate approach with a low volume of fillers, or they undergo circumcision to limit skin movement and thus be able to use a more significant amount of product.
The clinical results of PMMA and Ellansé are identical since both products are made of microspheres and promote collagen I and III formation. Remember, the only advantage (for some patients) is that Ellansé disappears over time, returning the tissues to their basal condition.
Please look for our eBrochure where you will find more information about all the topics in this thread. Please ask for it at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Wantingbigger wrote: Yes technique is key and also wanting the best possible outcome for your patients. In the UK from what I've that isn't the case. They inject a big lump of filler and then they'll send you, on your way to mold it. And with Ellanse that's not a good Idea.

Technique is not the key in this circumstance, but certainly helps in improving your chances for a good result. In the end, being uncircumcised increases the chances of aesthetic irregularity, reported by the most high-volume injecting Sponsors (and by extension, some of the highest-volume penile girth injectors in the world).

The U.K. has multiple practices (Sponsors & Non-Sponsors alike) that employ their own technique(s) and it doesn't matter if it is the U.K., U.S., Australia, or Mauritania, or anywhere in the world for that matter -- if being uncircumcised wasn't such an issue, why would these Clinics report their findings? Some of these Clinics that support adult circumcision don't necessarily provide circumcisions themselves, so they aren't exactly benefiting from turning away uncircumcised customers monetarily.

itgoesthud wrote:

MoMoney wrote: Thanks for the input. My suspicion is that it serra/nattokinase would not mess with the fillers, and its nice to some some anecdotal evidence.

Yeah I mean I've read people mention it ameliorated the breakdown of scar tissue but collagen, near as I can tell/read, is not the same nor affected the same, as scar tissue.

MoMoney wrote: You are almost at 2 years with what seems like a decent amount of your HA left. Have you been happy with it and when/if you do you plan on a re-up?

I went with such a conservative amount (15ml) based on my starting size that I think it's spread super thin, and indistinguishable from my penile tissue. I don't know how I'd like it if I would have gotten more, so my feelings are mixed, and I can't overly enthusiastically "endorse" it. I very much love my dick, and yet, I paid more for HA (from a non-sponsor, before i joined the boards) than I would have going to e.g. Avanti and getting something permanent. Knowing what I know now, if you put me in a time machine, I'd have gone the PMMA route. If money were no object, and adding more HA up to my goal size felt as natural as I do currently? Absolutely I'd be happy. But I suspect that's not the case, as it would be for PMMA.

MoMoney wrote: Lastly, why do you take serra/nattokinase?

Familial hyperlipidemia coupled with me being on TRT and being the type who loves lifting and hates cardio.
Keeping my blood flowing is going to keep my dick hard, and keep me from croaking young. I figured fibrin clots are not conducive to this, and that regardless I'd end up with an improvement in blood pressure.
Generally any supplements I take are specifically targeted at endothelial function - good for the is good for the penis, so...yeah. I'm a tall, wide dude, left ventricular hypertrophy is almost a certainty, so any advantages I can get, I'm going to take. L Citrulline, nattokinase, niacine, baby aspirin, fish oil, I slam all of them.

I did actually learn a LOT from the holistic covid remedy guinea pigging people did; that's also how I discovered lactoferrin, which, turns out it's a great way of raising ferritin without wrecking your gut.

All very interesting man. I'm going for my second round of Ellanse with AD, likely stopping here, will be 25cc's total between the two rounds. Still interested in HA in the future if I want to experiment higher girth then.

I think the blood flow improvement I felt was possible fibrin clot busting. Cant wait to try it again and see if i notice the same thing years later.

I use to supplement with citrulline malate, gave me crazy endurance.

Every experiment with raw garlic? Shit gave me crazy energy and crazy wood.

I have a Titan. I will be getting at least 1 round of Ellanse, scheduled in the coming weeks.

I'm young, my angle with the implant is about 2:30-2, but all the older guys I know say its 3 or lower. If its lowers from the extra weight of filler I'm not going to worry about it.

I'm glad everything worked out. The guys Ive spoken to so far who have a filler + ipp, regardless of the order they received them, said its been a blast and one hell of a combo.

Keep us updated.

Screen2584 wrote:

6x5to6x7 wrote:

Lnpleaeu wrote: Thank you both so much for the detailed answers. I have put in the request for the consultation and the office has not been reaching out to me yet. I might try to call then tomorrow on my day off. I also have put in a request for 2 weeks off. I also have 2 days off in a row weekly so i can always flight back to remove the stitches. I have an office job so hopefully if I have to wear a hanging or stretching device, it would not be too visible nor too complicated to remove to go pee and put it back on easily. The recovery of 6 to 8 months is a a bit frustrating but I guess everything comes with a price. Idk if I read it here or somewhere else that filler or fat injection is kinda squishy and when you are having sex, the filler can be pushed to the base and kinda stick outside. Having the surgery with Surgimend, do you guys have the same problem? Or it would be more natural looking, feeling, and functional. Sorry if the question is too personal. Perhaps, Dr. Liu will explain it better.

Again, thank you so much for the detailed responding!

Hey brother. Just wanted to offer up my experience with PMMA. I have a thread going you can read. I’m only chiming in because you stated fillers look fake or maybe bunch up with sexy and might feel squishy, etc. I can’t speak for all fillers and some of that might be true. I can speak to the PMMA filler treatment I had done in December by Avanti Derma. It’s not squishy, does not feel fake, when I’m erect my dick is rock hard, my veins are already back. My dick is very natural looking and feeling. I actually am going in for round 2 next month because the results of round 1 were so great. I’m extremely happy and so is my wife. You’re recommended to not have sex for at least two weeks, but I had sex on day 6. I’m not recommending that, but I’m just saying…. I have as good or better results without having to go under the knife and endure a 6-9 month healing process. To each their own, but my goal was to achieve the safest, least invasive process with the best results. Hit me up if you have any questions. I just cringe at the thought of surgery when Avanti offers such a great result without surgery. All that said, I agree that the procedure I had done probably won’t help you with erect length.

If someone is considering permanent filler, then I think having a dermal graft is a good choice, because if something goes wrong with the filler it has to go out through surgery anyhow.

Besides, having a dermal graft is likely to give better results. You will not have to remove it because the result was bad, but rather in the rare case there is some complications.

Honestly though, I am a bit concerned how these dermal grafts do long-term, for example 10-20 years. If there are some complications, it has to be removed through surgery.

Even though dermal grafts have been done for nearly 3 decades, it is hard to say whether they are really permanent. However, I guess the same can be said for PMMA. Who knows if the filler might have to be removed for some reason?

Second, like you wrote, surgery should not be underestimated. You have to be strong mentally to cope with it, because it is your penis, but PMMA is also permanent and for that reason any complications might be devastating.

OP wrote that he had some temporary penile retraction, which is common, but it is enough to really freak someone out who is not so strong mentally. I believe that I had some penile retraction too after the surgery, and it gave me a lot of anxiety.

My point is: I believe it is a much better idea to start with HA, and if someone feels that they want to up their game, they can consider surgery or PMMA later. In my opinion, first-timers should not be encouraged to get surgery or permanent fillers. Androfill wrote it recently on the forum that they strongly discourage first-timers from having Ellanse.

Finally, I want to say that Dr. Liu has a treasure trove of information on his website. I wish another Q&A could be done with him.

Well said but to put everyone's mind to rest, both pmma / HA/ Ellansé and surgical methods like Alloderm / Surgimend and Megaderm can all give you great results as long as you go to a reputable and competent clinic/practitioner. And here meaning, "Phalloboards" you can get the launch pad for your best options and base your selections on your location, type of enhancement, budget and your expectations.


Fillers can offer you great results with much less down time from healing up and back into sex. But some people like my self opted for surgery, in my case because I wanted to keep things as biocompatible+permenant as possible and also I am not looking for ridiculous size gains. With fillers I have seen what some people can achieve and its pretty nuts, but its their choice. I personally didnt wan't to get addicted to being a "SIZE KING" Surgical methods tend to take long to heal but they also satiate that tendency to go back for "More and More".

But yeah waiting to heal is definitely not a perk, but it sure is a good breaking system for protecting you from your self basically a reality check if you will that just a "little bit more" might not always be the answer. I will say this... I have seen many GREAT journeys on this website with very happy ending and results and really good for them! And some guys that had really awesome results with fillers but just didn't stop while they were ahead... and went from amazing looking cocks with really nice girth and great esthetics to the absurd and abnormal. Try not to be that guy. Honestly no woman NEEDS a 7 inch girth cock. It is just my opinion obviously but having a 6 -6.4 inch cock puts you in that 1% group for a reason. It is a very high achievement... just some really rough math's but if the world population is 7 billion... and you have 6 inch girth puts you in the 1%...that means 70 million and now divide that by 2 because lets say half the world is women (its more btw) you are 1 of 35million men on this planet with that girth....and to be quite honest your more like 1 in 20 million or so once you include other factors. Its enough....

At the end of the day the grass will always be greener for various reasons for various people.

Main thing is to think long and hard before going through with something, spending too much time worrying "after the fact" and regretting things you do in life sucks right? It is very important to put logical limitations on everything you do otherwise you will be going in reverse/zig zags your whole life in fog with out lights and that is not a fun place to be.

EricPig wrote: Having FDA approval for a filler that you patented is a smart move for multiple reasons. I’m only addressing the point that you made that it’s “illegal”. Because you speak with certainty but… you don’t. I’m just trying to make you see that what your issue is a feeling. It’s not fact. Which again. You’re entitled to. But the accusations against Loria are unsubstantiated. You don’t have to go to him nor like him. But you can’t say things like “he’s injecting illegally” and have your members read that and take your word for it. That’s false.
He also does state that is what he is injecting. That’s well known in the office and website. But tell you what. Next time I go I’ll have them show me the vials lol. Which is something I know doesn’t happen at any of these other companies. But… I’ll do that to quiet this.

Ellanse is a unique compound dermal filler that is not FDA approved. For this reason, its use would be an issue of legality, since it would NOT be permissible to use within the United States. Loria's Mystery Cocktail is also a unique compound dermal filler that is not FDA approved. For this reason, its use would be an issue of legality, since it would NOT be permissible to use within the United States. Comprendes?

Do you know why the FDA regulates these fillers? To ensure they meet an acceptable risk threshold and are intended to provide positive benefits to the American patient/consumer. This is to test the efficacy of medical drugs and devices, which means Loria's Mystery Cocktail at BEST is unethical in its use(s), if not outright illegal.

Also, I made clear numerous times that I couldn't prove he was injecting illegally, but that I was suspicious of it based on the information available (and elaborated on why). I did so clearly multiple times and here you are saying otherwise. Please READ.

Call up any Cosmetic Clinic and ask them to read off their menu of fillers & other injectables. You'll hear Juvaderm, Bellafill, Botox, and so on. Not once are you going to hear, "and our In-House Specialty volume enhancer," like EVER. If they have Silikon1000, they'll inject you with just that. I mean again, nothing about this Loria smells right.

Also are you telling me that he uses Silikon1000 (a brand-name) as a core ingredient in his patent, as well as the same ingredient that will be submitted to the FDA for approval? I'd be curious to see if Silikon1000 could sue in this instance, but the legality of this matter is admittedly above my pay-grade. Like if the perfect "mixture" constituted a high enough percentage of Silikon1000 so that it's effectively "Silikon1000-Lite", wouldn't this amount to some kind of infringement? Interesting to see where that goes (if it goes anywhere at all).

You got duped by a "sleazy used car salesman" of a Doctor (no disrespect to any actual used car salesmen reading this lol) and you rather not swallow the pill. Every response you make falls flat on its face. You're not doing yourself or the Loria "brand" any justice to be frank, quit while you're ahead please. You claim you don't want to argue, but choose to anyways, all while making points that were previously refuted or addressed. Don't let this "ICU Nurse" thing get to your head buddy.

And I was going to wait until later to publish this piece on the frontpage, but since I did mention lymphatics in a previous post, check out this article with a Urological insight on penile injections as well as a case follow-up on a penile & testicular silicone enhancement -- FRESH OFF THE PRESSES:


Effectiveness of Silicone Injections for Penile Enlargements

EricPig wrote:

Skeptical_One wrote: First and foremost, my proclamations on the matter come from a multitude of respected physicians with considerably more authority on the subject, so this is not simply my own assumptions.

Secondly, Dr. Loria is a career liar. You have no idea how many times he changed up his vocabulary with respect to his filler and how quickly he'd change subjects. I've joined in on calls, and I've had members join in on conference calls, and he would just toss around gibberish assuming us (the "ignorant") would take his word for it. He would even throw around terms like "PMMA" and "Collagen production" and wouldn't even mention silicone at first. He's so evasive in fact, that there is a former patient on a separate PE forum who shared a story when in the hospital for his penis condition, that Loria refused to give the physicians information on what was injected. Can you believe that? This patient facing infection that could lead to sepsis, and Loria didn't have even the morality to do the right thing for his own patient because he's clearly got something to hide. I really try my hardest to refrain from name-calling as it is not befitting of an Administrator of a site discussing serious topics, but that was such a scumbag move on Loria's part and tells me everything I need to know about who he really is.

When I brought up him using the term "Cosmetic Surgeon," it wasn't meant to say that you need to be a surgeon to perform these procedures, it was to say he was lying about his medical background because he's in-fact NOT a surgeon in any capacity.

Yes, I received an email from his marketing rep, not himself obviously. He's too proud and stubborn to ever make the first move. I've defended Sponsors and Non-Sponsors alike. I'm open to new Sponsors. Ask yourself why I won't accept Loria? Why not take his money? Ask yourself why the vast majority of penis enlargement doctors don't include silicone oil as a filler option when they can use Silikon100 off-label? Do you really truly believe this Hair Restoration "specialist" has figured out what career-accomplished surgeons and urologists haven't?

Having followed the scene since 2005 and learned the nuances of the penis and these procedures from the Doctors themselves sort of actually does amount to the same kind of "credits" you'd need to earn to have some above-average understanding of the topic matter -- more so than a random "nurse" I'd contend. I've spent countless hours reading not only posts, but private messages, emails, and other modes of communication for well over a decade with both patients and Doctors (some of which were non-Sponsors). I've studied sexual medicine to the extent that I have a good understanding of anatomy and some of the physiologies involved, especially as it pertains to penis enlargement. Sure, I'm not a medical professional, but I do see myself as the most qualified Patient Educator there is (on matters of penis enlargement). Either way, my claims are made on the information provided to me by those who are in the know, and many of them.

Clearly your schooling has not made you any smarter on making good decisions in this respect, and I'm afraid not even a Doctorate will solve your inability to see the patterns of deception -- but I get it, the last thing you want to think about is having a ticking timebomb in your penis, so you have to double down on defending your poorly made decision by reassuring yourself that because you've had some medical training, that you're incapable of being scammed. You know, no one likes being scammed, it's a tough pill to swallow as a grown adult. Besides, an ICU Nurse? I seldom "LOL" on this forum but I know a few personally (ICU in fact), and I assure you they wouldn't have a damn clue about the nuances of penis enlargement, so kick rocks with that nonsense please.

Dr. Elist has been performing his botcheries circa 2009, and we all know how terrible his procedure is. Dr. Loria's patient count doesn't give him any points, all it tells me is that he's a sociopath for cash.

Yes, many of the Doctors I know of actually show the box, or at the very least, will have the box and serial number sticker per request.

You do realize that until he has FDA clearance, he's injecting you illegally, right?

Do you actually believe he changes the ratios of his filler ingredients per patient on the day of the procedure? Right there and then in his lab by just examining your penis? I mean that seems rather tedious, inefficient, and costly. Did you have to wait a while before he came into the room with the syringes? Seems bizarre if you ask me. If I were a gambling man, I'd wager a pretty penny he has a set ratio premade ready to go, largely that of silicone oil that is imported illegally in order to give him absurd profit margins. Last I checked, Silikon1000 was the 2nd most expensive filler, only behind Bellafill (PMMA), and looking at some price lists right now, may have exceeded that of Bellafill. To pump the kind of volumes you require with this type of filler (60cc's +) and keep his pricing market-competitive, I'm having a hard time believing he's using anything legally. But you just haven't asked yourself those kind of questions, have you? I'm trying to do you a favor here, if you can only see it.

What you ultimately fail to see is that this site promotes the efficacious methods of phalloplasty based on its history, the science/medicine behind it, and patient feedback. The PhalloBoards is the only site, community, and validated source (via physician education & endorsement) that has followed this niche topic, and has done so for 13 years. It isn't bias, it's reality. If it were bias, why would I provide my readership with different options like Alloderm, Surgimend, Ellanse, Hyaluronic Acid, Radiesse, PMMA (Bellafill AND Linnea Safe), Renuva, Fat Transfer, and so on? PRP and exosomes? Different regions, states, different countries? Do you think some of my Sponsors were thrilled that P-Long came along? Well, it was an alternative to phalloplasty for guys who like to do PE exercises. By encouraging healthy competition, I play a role in lowering market costs and incentivizing innovation among the leaders in phalloplasty. I have weekly/monthly calls and can't wait for them to share some advances made that I'm not at liberty to speak of at present time (because they need to be fully tested). I'm clearly taking the sides of methods I know don't possess unacceptable levels of risk based on a knowledge that you simply do not have -- if that's bias, fine, I'll concede that much. And yes, all elective procedures are not without risk, but there is a line that when crossed, becomes unacceptable.

If this wasn't an open free flow of information, wouldn't I have simply deleted your posts and banned you? If you want to continue insulting this forum and its community, then you can go take a hike. We've been very receptive to your experience(s), but I've stated on innumerable occasions that this site is a No-Silicone-Zone, and so whenever the procedure itself is promoted or recommended, I've made it a forum policy to provide the necessary information to many newcomers who are simply unaware. If hypothetically PMMA (known to be non-carcinogenic) were to somehow have a 100% direct causality with cancer, not only would most ethical Doctors discontinue its use, but those who choose not to would be admonished and black-listed.

I've seen enough emails of Loria patients begging for assistance, and Doctors telling me the nightmares they've seen fixing his garbage-excuse for work. This is also true for the Penuma (Elist implant). However, I just don't get that level of scary reporting from the aforementioned procedures I support (like HA and PMMA and so on). Those mostly deal with aesthetic issues that never impact the health and/or function of the penis.

Oof, the kind of skin grafts required to fix a Loria procedure gone wrong, or the severity of late stage granulomas with something so synthetic, or migration into other parts of the body... I know of a forum veteran who I won't mention that is experiencing illness that may be related to silicone oil according to some back-channel sources, if I get confirmation that the diagnosis is confirmed (or get him willing to acknowledge it here), I will.

Lastly, you told me you didn't want to argue, and I made clear my post was a PSA in response to what may have been an intentional or unintentional promotion of this procedure (citing patents give people the impression of legitimacy), and it wasn't necessarily to argue with you. I also asked in my last post that we carry on, because as you said yourself, you wish not to argue. Everything I've said has been factual, honest, and informed. The only thing I said that I can't prove (but believe the evidence is strongly in favor of) is my belief that he sources/imports silicone illegally because there is no way he's charging those prices for the amount of volume being injected, even in bulk. Everything else were facts, plain and simple.

Based on your insistence that there are no more arguments, I am politely asking everyone please resume the topic at hand.

I agree with you to move on. I don’t really care to address many of the above comments since it will just keep this discussion going. However I do want to be clear that use of medications off label (the use of drugs outside the approved FDA intention) is in fact legal. Also to that point as the below link will highlight- doctors are not required to tell patients if the medications they are prescribing are being done in an “off label” manner. However Loria does.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/inf...on-medications/2012-

07#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20many%20physicians%20prescribe,of%20informed%20consent%20is%20introduced.

www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/off...hat-you-need-to-know

I understand that to those who are not medical this might come as a shock but I just wanted to clear that up that it is not illegal. So please make sure your sticking to your word when you profess to be educated on these matters and putting down healthcare workers and their educations when it’s us who care for you and your loved ones.

I also wanna comment that I don’t think you’re a bad dude. I appreciate that you care and take a strong stance in your opinion. I do believe you truly dislike Loria and his practice and want to convince guys to avoid him. I completely disagree with your view but you’re entitled to feel how you do.
I encourage everyone to not take your word nor my word and to do their own research and speak to patients from all companies to get their experiences.

No one once disputed the use of dermal fillers off-label as being legal or illegal. Every Sponsor, like most cosmetic doctors & surgeons, use fillers off-label and the FDA is well aware and typically don't intervene. Many medications are prescribed off-label all the time. No one here is shocked, it's common knowledge and It doesn't take an ICU Nurse to know this... not only does this make you sound embarrassingly pretentious, but makes me believe you didn't bother to read a word I typed, and yet still had the audacity to reply with something that was never being argued in the first place.

My point overall was NOT about off-label use, but rather my suspicion that he's acquired (i.e. imported) non-FDA approved silicone oil, which would then make it a matter of legality. You would have known this if you read what I typed, but again, I feel like you're selectively ignoring details in my posts for whatever reason(??). The amount of volume he injects (60cc's-100cc's +) using Silikon1000 is cost prohibitive, yet he somehow offers competitive market rates for girth enhancement... this explains my skepticism about what he's injecting people with. I'm not claiming I know with certainty that this is going on, and maybe never will, but his history of being a liar and his reckless willingness of injecting silicone oil AT ALL in addition to the cost-per-volume disparity, who wouldn't ask questions?

My other contention was that silicone oil is a dangerous choice of filler for high volume in the penis from various credible sources over decades monitoring the topic of male phalloplasty. When the Penuma Implant has complications, you usually see it in the first year or two so you tend to see more negative reports more frequently; the scary part about something like silicone oil is that it can take 3, 5, or more years for serious complications to manifest. The lymphatic system is going to go through hell, especially if this isn't medical-grade silicone oil (even then it wouldn't matter a whole lot). Risks like silicone migration (embolisms are no joke), or granulomas that are much more difficult to treat because the matter is oil and not tissue, and so on, are real problems I hear about from credible sources.

In hopefully what will be my last summary on this matter: (1) silicone oil is bad as a penile filler and (2) I have suspicions of his actual filler concoction (despite my inability to prove it). Every other sane, ethical Doctor uses brand name fillers that come in neatly packaged boxes. Dr. Loria is now not only a "Cosmetic Surgeon" (which he isn't) but a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer as well? I mean, come on man.

This will be the third time I politely ask you resume the topic at hand, my response was made to clear up what was most definitely a misunderstanding on your part (off-label legality was never the issue). Now that I've cleared that up in addition to reiterating my sentiments in fewer paragraphs so that my stance is understood, and not something I care to argue, carry on. I don't think you're a bad person or an unappreciated forum member either, and I sincerely hope you don't ever have to deal with complications that stem from your injections (and maybe you never will) -- my comments were aimed at Loria and his quackery is all. Again, let's carry on.

This was literally answered here, where you even replied after my explanation. Creating a new topic after this question has been answered only saturates the forum with redundant posts, bloating information access for others. Using the SEARCH tab, and typing in Ellanse, my answer was on the first page of results. Please be mindful of this, and I will likely delete this topic altogether, only keeping this around for you and others to see Forum Policy (I just deleted another one asking the same question). A little extra time spent scrolling through search queries isn't too much to ask.

Given that I read every post on the forum as well as get updates from Ellanse providers, I would be most privy to the current consensus - and to reiterate what was concluded in the long post I linked above, there doesn't appear to be any definitive answer to the question of this topic "Ellanse Collagen Duration" (yet).

If you use the SEARCH tab on PhalloBoards 2.0 , it's quite easy to ascertain that the topic of Ellanse only began to pick up steam 5 years ago (search results there show the age of the posts). Since then, I can't recall anyone requiring "top-offs" or having returned since to report significant size loss (on the contrary, most guys report their size remains stable) -- although in fairness, it could have been mentioned once or twice that some guys have seen size-loss among thousands of posts I've read, but that would mean it's such an uncommon occurrence that it doesn't trend.

Given the following facts: (1) Ellanse is non-FDA approved (meaning no available peer-reviewed American medical literature), (2) has its own manufacturer severely under-project its product's lifetime (you would think their researchers would take collagen half-life into account, no?), and (3) has little-to-no reporting of notable size loss on the only website in the world that discusses Ellanse injections for the penis (implying that some men are approaching the 5+ year post-op window, exceeding the range set by Ellanse's manufacturer) -- you'll see the complexity in getting a definitive answer. In addition to this complexity, consider the potential bias that comes with asking the Ellanse's manufacturer (who are already dealing with the fallout from being way off the mark on their filler's duration), or any of the Clinics that I mentioned whom I trust, but they are in fact businesses and not just medical practices, and will likely provide an honest yet safe answer in the favor of a product they use..

I want to stress that I'm not concluding with certainty regarding Ellanse's duration in all or some patients, only that the reported & anecdotal evidence shows that it's lasted longer than the manufacturer's projected lifetime, hence the removal of some of their products off the market (like how the 1 & 2 year options were effectively misleading, even if unintended or unexpected). Also, like with all temporary fillers, our own body's propensity (how efficiently) to breakdown foreign bodies/substances will mean that there will be varying degrees of longevity -+- in conjunction with the collagen type triggered by Ellanse, and its associated half-life or projected lifespan.

Hopefully you do get a chance to read this before the topic is deleted (that's if I choose to delete it; it's more that I want this forum to be accessible and not overwhelming with repeat postings). That said, the silver lining here is that you've given me an incentive to create a Topic in the near future regarding this very issue (Ellanse duration) by sending correspondences to Avanti Derma and Androfill, the two leading Ellanse providers for penile-injections in the world, as well as Ellanse's Manufacturer, to get both their opinions and any actual statistics in order to compile all pertinent information in one place. Yes, some of the information I will receive may have some degree of bias (like I mentioned previously), but that'll be our job as a community to draw the best judgment we can with what information is available, because at the end of the day, male phalloplasty is still a new frontier in cosmetic medicine.

Also, this new Topic that I'll create will also be a great place for long-term Ellanse patients to chime in with (1) how many years post-op, (2) how many sessions overall, and (3) any notable size-loss independent of erection quality, etc.

Rybrad wrote: 1. This is very expensive and having to top up every 6 months to a year would not be financially attainable for me. However, if I had to top up every 18 months to 2 years, that is doable for me. I was always under the assumption that HA lasted 6 months to a year, but Phallofill is making longer lasting claims. What is your opinion?

The dissipation of temporary fillers like Hyaluronic Acid (HA) or Radiesse seems largely determined by your own body's rate of breaking down and removing foreign substances. Our bodies all seem to vary in rates of speed when it comes to different things. Think how some people can grow really long hair really fast while others would have to commit to years to achieve the same length. Not all processes & physiologies are equal.. There may be other factors at play as well, but in the end you really won't know the extent of retention until you actually get it done. I have absolutely heard of verified 2 year retentions and on the flip side, as low as 6 months.

That said, you have to keep something in mind which may alleviate the cost burden: Typically when people get top-offs, they are injecting less volume, and so in theory you should be paying less than the original price (assuming you are injecting considerably less volume the 2nd time around). Think of this example: after about 18 months you are at a 50% loss of your original HA gains. At this time, if you were to go in for a top-off, you won't need nearly the same volume to reach the size you were the first time around, which would presumably be cheaper. I won't speak for PhalloFILL because despite all the other (non-Dallas) Clinics being affiliated with the company name, they are in-fact independent as a practice & business. You'll have to inquire with whichever location you plan on visiting regarding top-off rates (flat-rate pricing vs price-per-volume injected).

I also want to stress how reasonable rates have become despite inflation + being a very specialized niche & uncommon procedure. In the 90's and 2000's, $15,000 was a steal of a price with a strong forecast of depressing complications. I think at present time, my most expensive FILLER Sponsor is around $10,000, and that's largely due to overhead as he operates out of some of the most expensive real estate in the country and also happens to be highly credentialed. More importantly, think about the confidence-per-dollar you get with a fatter cock versus a coveted sports car. While I'm sure some of you have your own motivations, the vast majority of guys want the big dick no less than they want the Porsche, except now we live in a time where the big dick amounts to 5% of the cost of a luxury/sports car with comparable effect. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy promoting healthy competition amongst my Sponsors (while representing them fairly to the best of my ability), which in turn helps keep costs reasonable. I try to encourage seasonal promotions and such to ensure readership here can grab at whatever they can take off the top. At present time, PhalloBoard Members have a 5% Discount with Androfill (Ellanse & HA - United Kingdom) and a 10% Off any Male Enhancement Services from Jiva Med Spa (Which includes Bellafill PMMA). Find their contact info by clicking here and mention the PhalloBoards member discount prior or during booking.

Regardless of all of that, let us not forget that this is an aesthetic elective medical procedure that are performed by maybe 20-25 practitioners in the North America worth trusting your penis with (yes that includes some non-Sponsors)... this by very definition makes it a luxury... but perhaps the most inexpensive luxury for men all things considered.

Rybrad wrote: 2. How spongy does it feel? Does it feel like your natural penis, or is there an obvious softness to it that is easily discernable? I'd like to maintain stiff erections and not have a squishy feeling when hard?

This comes up a lot, and I think it has to do with earlier iterations of HA. As some of you may or may not know, HA is naturally created in the body (one of a few reasons it has such a strong safety profile), and medical manufacturers learned that they can make it in the lab through a technique called cross-linking. Older iterations of HA were used for soft areas (face, etc) and it wasn't until more recently that cosmetic medicine had expanded its use all over the body. Now there are cross-linked iterations much more robust and compatible for use in the penis.

This explains why some of the more recent HA reviews (either in a Progress Report or Directory Rating) have been generally positive. What has made PhalloFILL so popular so quickly is that they really put in the work to find the right brand of HA that would provide both the best kind of retention, and more importantly, "feel & naturalness."

It should also be noted that you don't want the penis to be too hard much like you wouldn't want it to be too soft. Even an erect penis has some "give" when pressed against the skin. I've been to an Adult Novelty store, and that's when I noticed that ZERO of the dildos (which are meant to mimic an actual penis) were ever as hard as vibrators (which are meant to provide stimulation as an electrical device).

Last advice here regarding the "feel" of HA. If you are the type that is hyper-critical then I'd strongly recommend being circumcised and starting with low-to-medium volumes. This way if you didn't like it, it's easy to manage and will eventually dissipate. If you can live with potential imperfections that only you will notice, then go with whatever the practitioner recommends. And by the way, the potential imperfections wasn't a knock on HA, all fillers have a degree of unpredictability, now matter how good the doctor or filler is.

Rybrad wrote: 3. They have locations all over the US and even one in my city, but I want to go with the practitioner with the most experience. Would this be the Dallas location?

So part of the affiliation is that PhalloFILL provided training (among other things) to these would-be affiliates, and so they are all in theory qualified to do a modest (or even great) job. That said, for me it would be Dallas 100%. They are the ACTUAL FOUNDERS AND COMPANY of PhalloFILL and they've also had a pretty good reputation with keeping patients satisfied (they have the most ratings in the Directory Listing section of this site).

However, if budgeting and logistics is of notable importance, then call your closest PhalloFILL Office, many of them being Urology practices, more than equipped and familiar with penile health & enhancement.

Delonman wrote: Very interesting getting Ellanse with an inflatable penile implant! Not many have been in that position and posted about it. May I ask who your surgeon was for the implant? Did you talk with him about the Ellanse?

Dr. Hakky in Atlanta.

I emailed him about Ellanse, he wasnt familiar with it. He is against PMMA for implanted guys because of risk of the permanent PMMA material getting into surgical wounds in the future (implantees will need revisions eventually). He is a fan of HA because of the usual safety profile (he also sells it).

To me Ellanse is appealing because the filler material will eventually dissipate.

If you are looking at IPPs, then I'd highly recommend him. Arguably #1 in US or world.