TOPIC: HA Girth Increase, London UK - NOT Androfill (Utterly Disappointed)

Hello all!

Some of you may have read my previous topics, so will probably be aware of my journey.
For those who aren't familiar, I'll keep it very brief and stick to the HA session in question so as to not divert from the subject.

In short, I decided to go with a clinic I'm not allowed to mention here, due to reasons I won't disclose for now.
Anyway, I don't wish to get into this, rather, report my experience and results for the benefit of the readers, nothing else.

Before I go any further, I think it's relevant to disclose that I actually made up my mind today, to go for 6ml Androfill HA (an Androfill Ellanse prerequisite) dissolve shortly after, then 2 sessions of 15ml Ellanse, possibly 3, depending on the results of the initial session.
Well, this idea literally went to ?, simply because of the distasteful customer service and responses I received, to finally ignore and I believe, block me from Whatsapp.

Again, I'm not going to get into the details, all I can say is that Androfill seriously needs to remove whatever is stuck up their anus, as they are losing many potential customers because of it. Not only this, but the consultation service leaves a lot to be desired. I'm not an emotional, ignorant or biased person to say the least, I'm just stating how it is.
In fact, I was prepared to use them on this occasion as they almost have a monopoly in the UK and their results seem decent. But that can only go so far.
I have decided to completely write off Androfill and would likely go with another clinic in the EU or the US in the future for semi-perm/permanent results.

As such, I have decided to go with a Harley Street clinic that offers its own HA formula for £1,999 per 15ml.
I have nothing to lose, and worst case scenario I can dissolve if it turns out to be a complete disaster, or go for a 2nd session to even out imperfections if there are minor issues.
Best case, I'll go for a 3rd 5-10ml at a push, but keeping in mind the aesthetics and practicality.

To clarify, this isn't a new, unknown clinic. They have been around for a while and seem to have done many procedures. The chance of them chopping my ? off or deeming it disabled is extremely low.

My appointment is for next week, the 12th of December. If all is well, and I'm happy with the consultation, I will get it done on the day (if they allow this).
I shall post before and after images here and keep you all updated.

Look forward to updating you all!

Pre HA
BPEL 7.5"
MEG 5.5"

Initial Goal
BPEL 7.5"
MEG 6.5"

End Goal
BPEL 8"
MEG 8" (unrealistic, I know!)

What went wrong in the communication? Blocking you is extreme.

Francis is pretty good on there to be fair, but it seems there are many answering the whatsapp now.

I was asking questions to decide and eliminate any objections I had. Maybe I came across as a nubie, but regardless of that, there were belittling comments and messages.
It pretty much ended with Androfill messaging "I am sorry. It is too risky to take you on as a patient"
I asked twice who I was speaking to, no response. The final message I sent again, asking "Am I speaking with Francis?" Shows a single WhatsApp tick.

Anyway, I really am not bothered about it.

Huxinyu wrote: I was asking questions to decide and eliminate any objections I had. Maybe I came across as a nubie, but regardless of that, there were belittling comments and messages.
It pretty much ended with Androfill messaging "I am sorry. It is too risky to take you on as a patient"
I asked twice who I was speaking to, no response. The final message I sent again, asking "Am I speaking with Francis?" Shows a single WhatsApp tick.

Anyway, I really am not bothered about it.

Huxinyu wrote: I was asking questions to decide and eliminate any objections I had. Maybe I came across as a nubie, but regardless of that, there were belittling comments and messages.
It pretty much ended with Androfill messaging "I am sorry. It is too risky to take you on as a patient"
I asked twice who I was speaking to, no response. The final message I sent again, asking "Am I speaking with Francis?" Shows a single WhatsApp tick.

Anyway, I really am not bothered about it.

Hello Huxinyu,
I have read through the Whatsapp thread. It was substantially answered by someone else and then transferred to me right at the end.

My contribution was "I am sorry. It is too risky to take you on as a patient"
I then gave you the name of an alternative clinic who are the next best in the UK.
I have asked the other patient support persons why you were blocked.

I did not find anything distasteful on our side in the message thread.

I see you were disagreeing with the rep about a few things based on the data and research you had compiled, it looks like you are disagreeing with some points in the conversation about isovolumetric degradation. You state "I have never heard anyone mention anything like this" when we warn you of the risks of "sloshyness" after some time if having too much HA.

The conversation was referred to me because the line of questioning was becoming a little challenging and you raised a few red flags in the mind of the rep. I took a look and agreed.

There is a BDD and Decision Making Matrix all patients are now completing and it will mean we take on fewer patients.
I am happy to message you privately with the aspects of the conversation that were problematic in regard to the risk matrix.

You mentioned during the conversation that you can't justify the cost and wanted to have the HA 'tester' somewhere else and then come to Androfill for the Ellanse.

If you are thinking of going to the clinic I think you might be referring to, please take care to examine each and every box of filler. Ask to take a photo of the QR code. Don't stop checking at the first box, and ask for the patient stickers from the box identifying Lot number expiry date and so on. There is a guide to ensuring you know what is being injected into your penis on the Androfill website.

You are also over-confident in your comment below.
[As such, I have decided to go with a Harley Street clinic that offers its own HA formula for £1,999 per 15ml.
I have nothing to lose, and worst case scenario I can dissolve if it turns out to be a complete disaster, or go for a 2nd session to even out imperfections if there are minor issues.]

The worst case is absolutely not that if you dissolve all their 'own formula' HA filler you will be back to square one.

One particular clinic in London (not Moorgate and not London Andrology) have 3 Repair cases coming to us per week, and of those 3 usually, only 2 can be fixed.
In short, this firm injects at best Genefill (an HA expressly contraindicated for use in the genitals... able to be purchased for around £100 for 10ml wholesale), and at worst I don't know what.

They inject 30,40,50 ml of this HA which goes all sloshy after 6-9 months making sex difficult. Their patients then come to us. There is encapsulated filler, nodules, and inflammation, it is a sloshy mess that they can't penetrate with, and after 40,50,60ml is dissolved away the skin is loose and baggy due to being stretched. Sometimes we can't dissolve the HA away at all, it simply won't break up. Other times we have dissolved their HA but they continue to have flare-ups of infection and inflammation.

There are 4 court cases that I am aware of due to the damage done by budget HA and too much of it. People should move on from the idea that HA can be 100% reversed, we also need to make it more clear that Hyaluronidase enzyme is not guaranteed to reverse all HA or correct problems caused by poor quality HA.

Let's say it takes two to tango and we can both learn from the interaction. It's pointless going through each message and having a tennis match as it won't achieve anything, aside from entertainment for readers (popcorn anyone?). I will only address those which you have brought up for the benefit of the readers.

As you have kindly taken the time to explain in good detail and actually provide value in this reply, I will return the favour. I wish this much effort was provided in the WhatsApp conversation, would have benefited both parties and most likely avoided this back and forth. Time wasted on either side I'm sure you'd agree.

First off, I would like to express to you the importance of sales and customer service.
Although each case generally differs, every lead has a set of fears and objections which come in the form of many questions and concerns.

Now, I can only explain and break down this particular scenario, but hopefully, I will give you an idea and insight for other cases going forward.
Even though it won't be immediately obvious through messaging, it's the sales rep's job to understand and address each of those objections to warm that lead and hopefully convert them. Sometimes, leads need a long time to convert, the higher price, the bigger the conversion window. This service is a perfect example.
In fact, getting the lead on a call, preferably a video call greatly reduces misunderstandings, confusion, and anxiety and increases trust and conversion rate.

I'm sure I don't need to remind you that this is an expensive and daunting procedure for those who are new to it. As such, there are going to be many objections, the majority of which will no doubt seem irrational or outright silly.
It is the rep's job to educate, answer all their questions and make them feel at ease in hope that they become a client. If not, it's OK, you've educated them and provided value, and they may be back in the near future for another product or service.

Yes, not all leads should be converted. Low-quality, problematic ones should be avoided in most cases, and from what I understand, this is the bracket I've been placed in.
In my opinion and from many years and experience in sales, marketing and customer service as well as trying to look at this unbiased, I believe this is wrong. I feel your policy needs to be revised, as I am by far the last person to complain, cause unnecessary problems or otherwise make things difficult.
Depending on the Androfill policy, it could be argued placing me in that bracket is justified, but blocking me on Whatsapp, no matter how you look at it, is a ridiculous and childlike activity. I could understand if I was aggressive, abusive, degrading or just a complete ass, it would warrant the block, otherwise, this kind of behaviour does Androfill no favours whatsoever.

I am extremely reasonable, and I understand the majority of unfavourable results are due to failed aftercare by the client themselves. I have been on this and other forums for 5+ years. In any case, I am not here to bore you with my personal characteristics and experience, or quality as a client, so I digress.
I may have come across as very inexperienced or potentially problematic, but you must understand the gravity of undertaking Girth enhancement for the first time.

In short, in the space of about 15 mins, you have disqualified a perfectly good, high-quality lead who was going to spend upwards of £10,000 within a month, and most likely more in the future. But more importantly, not cause any fuss or hassle and take aftercare extremely seriously.

Now, I'd like to point out a few things so it's extremely clear.

1. Where I mainly disagreed was the fact that you or your colleague mentioned people should stay off forums altogether as they do more harm than good (that message has since been deleted, as you obviously know this was an incorrect and contradicting statement, I'm sure you've corrected and educated your sales rep on this, hence the decision to remove).
Many people use forums as a great source of information and can get first-hand feedback and advice from veterans who have carried out all sorts of procedures. You have also received many clients as a result, and clients from forums, in general, will be more educated and aware of the details as opposed to someone who just walked into the clinic or has done very little research and had consultations from competitors. Forum clients will be of much higher quality and less problematic, it's a fact.

2. "I see you were disagreeing with the rep about a few things based on the data and research you had compiled, it looks like you are disagreeing with some points in the conversation about isovolumetric degradation. You state "I have never heard anyone mention anything like this" when we warn you of the risks of "sloshyness" after some time if having too much"
I was not disagreeing as such, but rather diving deeper into the logic behind the answer. Anyone who is told "A", from a single source, regardless of that source, should always seek other sources to see if "A" is in fact a sound answer. In this case, what I was being told was something new to me, and what you have basically stated, is that I needed to just accept without question, regardless if I read otherwise. Now, never did I state you or your rep was wrong or incorrect, I was only asking more questions to solidify my objections and hopefully eliminate them entirely. This is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to understand from a sales and customer service perspective.

3. "You mentioned during the conversation that you can't justify the cost and wanted to have the HA 'tester' somewhere else and then come to Androfill for the Ellanse"
That's correct. I was asking a simple question, and I received a satisfactory answer. I cannot see why this is relevant. I was simply evaluating my options, and cannot see what is wrong with this.
That's also true: it's hard to swallow the £1,750, but, what you fail to understand is the fact that trying to get a better price comes in many forms and I was simply poking at a bargaining chip.
Instead of straight up saying "Come on mate, you can do better!" I was hinting at, and hopefully trying to make you understand my perspective that possibly a better deal could be offered for the initial HA session.
For any business, it's common practice to try and barter a better deal before just accepting a retail price. This is the fundamentals of sales.

To reiterate, I agree with the process - to get the experience and see if the client is the right fit, before going with Elanse. I understand and it makes perfect sense.

In any case, I already made up my mind and came to terms with the £1,750 as I knew Ellanse was the filler for me. I would have gone ahead with everything even if you couldn't provide any form of discount.
I am not short of cash, and even if this procedure was double or triple the price, I'd still go ahead. I'm lucky enough to be somewhat financially successful, so I don't have this worry, it's more the principle.

I'd like to finish by confessing my already distorted view of Androfill as I went for a consultation over a year ago which left a lot to be desired.
I was hoping this time would be different, and even if wasn't, the product and procedure alone (based on research and recommendations) forced me to block out the underwhelming consultation in the past.
In saying this, no matter how good the product is if you're treated and made to be felt like nothing, why purchase it at all?
Unfortunately, it seems the customer-facing aspect of Androfill hasn't changed much and seriously needs to be worked on.

I hope this is of value to all the readers, as well as Androfil, after all, this is what the forum is for, to provide as much value as possible.

I'll leave it with a screenshot of the end of our conversation. Food for thought.

If the patient would like a phone consultation, please introduce yourself referring to this thread and call UK 020 3633 0026
Happy to discuss in more detail.

Hey all!

Due to being extremely busy, I had to delay the visit, but I'm happy to report I'm now on the train back from having 20ml of a premium filler.

I'll post photos soon, when the swelling subsides, the filler settles and has solidified over the next week or so.

As for the consultation and procedure, everything went very well and I was pleasantly surprised by the Dr's patience and professionalism.

I'm planning to return for a 10-20ml top-up in a month depending on how this initial HA session settles. But based on the current resutls, I'll definitely want more as it looks like I've only gained about 0.5" if that and aesthically, I can take more.

Peace out guys!

I thought I'd wait 2 weeks to make sure all swelling had gone down and the images represented the true results. I've attached the before and after on the day (side by side), as well as an after I literally just took now (2 weeks after)

Any questions, feel free to fire away!

Hi mate nice results , im uncircumsized aswell and im due in Androfill on the 6th for a 6ml tester bfore i have Ellanse in maybe a month or so. You got any aftercare tips especially molding for uncircumsized blokes? And who done yours? I know you werent impressed with Androfill and went somewere els , thanks.

Thanks!

As an update, I'm now 6.4 Girth at the thickest point, so not bad I suppose.
Also, It's not as good as it looks as I turtled a lot on the way back from the session.

Together with the swelling, the filler clumped up. When Erect, it looks pretty normal and I'm very happy with the results, but when you go for a pee and pull the Foreskin back, it's obviously deformed. Had some bad luck, with trains cancelled, pissing down with rain, and a 20 min unnecessary walk that had me freezing and drenched. caused me to turtle even more.

So here's my advice and what I'd do differently.

• If you're like me and have aggressive Turtling, try to arrange your session in summer so your penis doesn't react too much to the cold
  For first-timers (Don't do Elanse yet!!) go for 10ml HA or less, much easier to manage and mould if you need to, also gives you the experience
  I STRESS THIS!! Take a stretcher with you! Put it on as soon as you leave, this will keep the filler in place as and how the Dr injected it. MAKE SURE IT ATTACHES TO THE GLANS ONLY. Otherwise, you'll have filler vacuumed up in your upper Foreskin and it will look terrible!
  Try to keep it stretched as much as you possibly can for the next 5 days at least

My results were excellent at the clinic and looking at the immediate before and after photo was like looking at a natural penis, couldn't tell the difference.
If the doctor does a good job (as mine did) the goal is to keep it like that until it sets. Easier said than done, but if you take my advice above, then you should be fine.
What you want to avoid is moulding and touching it unnecessarily. If the shape and symmetry are how you want it (as it should be if you've communicated it clearly to the doctor), you need to ensure it stays that way, and the best way to do that is by keeping it stretched as mentioned.

You'll run into problems when you attempt to start messing with it, particularly if you're inexperienced. The issue is, if you feel you need to mould it, you don't have much time because it sets fast. And because of the swelling, it can be difficult to know if you're manipulating the filler or just pushing on the bruising etc. This is why starting off with a lower ml is better, it's much easier to manage.

To be clear, if you need to mould because of a bad job from the doctor, or because you weren't careful enough, ignore what the doctor says and start to mould IMMEDIATELY! If you leave it until the swelling subsides, it will be too late/too difficult to mould.

Failing that, you will have to rely on top-ups to correct any undulations, but best to avoid that entirely.
I'm lucky as I'm OK financially and this was more of an experiment for me. I'll be going for a top-up in 2 weeks, and even if I can't get it to look 100% natural when in the cubicles, doesn't bother me much, as long as I can use it for more important things - which I can lol.

Depending on your anatomy, when you start getting into 20ml+, it's almost impossible to avoid the "sausage in a blanket" look for uncircumcised men, so keep that in mind.
However, that's only prevalent when going for a wee, otherwise, the Foreskin always covers your head Flaccid, and when Erect, it looks normal.

Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to tell you who did mine due to forum rules, but it's another clinic in London.
I hope I've explained clearly and been of help, any more questions don't hesitate to ask!

Thank you very informative. Well its only a 6ml tester of HA to make sure i dont have a bad reaction and to get experience with it bfore the Ellanse , i will make sure to bring my stretcher with me ive got a penimaster pro so should be fine with that, it attatches at the glands. Only problem is ive got a 3 hour wait until my train back up north afterwards , you know any good places to wait around heuston station that would be good for having a check every now and then? Again thanks for the advice.

I guess you can sit in a coffee shop or find a bookstore/library etc. You want to avoid moving around too much shortly afterwards.
Unfortunately, even though I'm close to central London, I never go there (can't stand crowded places).
Yeah, as you say, with a 6ml tester, you should be fine.

Let us know how it goes!

Ok no probs al let you know how it went , not going to post bfore and after untill the Ellanse tbh no point really , i will write about my experience anyway , thanks.