TOPIC: Edupd's Progress Report

I think Dr. C. should inject more cc\'s e.g. 30-35 cc\'s @20% esp. in the 1st rd to get the main gain in Girth and then he can reduce the volume and the conc.s in the following rds for a better aesthetic and for only mild gain in Girth.
Dr. C. injected in some people around 20-22 cc\'s @20% and they got only small gain, so he realized now he has to inject more cc\'s in the 2nd rd and that was not in his plan from the beginning (his plan was as far as I remember to inject the biggest volume which is max. 22 cc\'s and then inject less and less in the following rds.
I have the feeling Dr.C. is going to modify his technique esp. with guys who have bigger EL he will inject this time in them more cc\'s @20% ( sure >25cc) esp. in the 1st rd .
Btw I would love to see the gain from 30cc\'s @10% (not 20%) in the 1st rd.

@edupd

I understand you were given 10% PMMA concentration. However, volume wise, would you know how many cc you were injected?

To add to the confusion, my 2ND session so far has yielded very good gains. I got 20% of about 19 CC per my request. The gains are so far about .4\" in Erect Girth. I say \"about\" because it is hard for me to measure and stay fully Erect at the same time without the help of a beautiful assistant!

So, I am not sure what is going on. Some people are having good results with 10% or 20% in the first and/or 2nd session. I have to theorize that it is the technique of Dr. C and the material he is using that is causing these variations Add to it that our bodies react differently to PMMA and you have a complicated matrix of variables.

Although for some reason, if one gets 30% in a high volume then the gains are very substantial in one round, do you agree SM and others?

BTW, I plan a 3RD session for aesthetics in a few months.

I received 15cc of 10%. I recall Wade and Dr. C talking about whether they should proceed once they\'d hit 14cc. Wade thought it was already looking very plump but Dr. C felt the last cc was needed to balance things out.

At that time (early August) I doubt very much that they would have considered 20% since they\'d made a conscious decision to go with 10% for everyone starting in July. Also, despite being a little longer than average I started with a smaller Girth so, yes, immediately after the procedure I looked \"very plump\" in contrast to what they started with. Problem is, once the carrier is gone there\'s very little actual PMMA left to build collagen from.

I\'ll be asking for 20% and will be pushing for 20-25cc this time around. It\'s a long trek for me so I have to make every trip count. I\'ll be back in the summer on business and I plan to get my 3rd session then, so I won\'t mind some irregularity after this next session if it comes to that.

To the person who asked if a 1/4\" gain is noticeable, not really. My girlfriend of 15 years was unaware I\'d done anything and to this day has never made mention of it. I will say that she seemed to definitely enjoy sex more from week 2 to about week 5 mark after session 1 but then it just trailed off again to normal as I continue to shrink in size. Considering I was approximately 3/4\" larger in Girth around the 3-4 week mark that makes perfect sense, but the remaining 1/4\" I have now just isn\'t enough to make a difference apparently.

To the person who asked if a 1/4\" gain is noticeable, not really. My girlfriend of 15 years was unaware I\'d done anything and to this day has never made mention of it. I will say that she seemed to definitely enjoy sex more from week 2 to about week 5 mark after session 1 but then it just trailed off again to normal as I continue to shrink in size. Considering I was approximately 3/4\" larger in Girth around the 3-4 week mark that makes perfect sense, but the remaining 1/4\" I have now just isn\'t enough to make a difference apparently.

Exactly where I am at after 21cc\'s of 20%. Your growth and shrinkage mirror my own experience to a T. I\'ll be going for maximum fill at full concentration for R2. Thank you for the update Edupd.

Regards,

M7

Mustang2020 wrote: To add to the confusion, my 2ND session so far has yielded very good gains. I got 20% of about 19 CC per my request. The gains are so far about .4\" in Erect Girth. I say \"about\" because it is hard for me to measure and stay fully Erect at the same time without the help of a beautiful assistant!

So, I am not sure what is going on. Some people are having good results with 10% or 20% in the first and/or 2nd session. I have to theorize that it is the technique of Dr. C and the material he is using that is causing these variations Add to it that our bodies react differently to PMMA and you have a complicated matrix of variables.

Although for some reason, if one gets 30% in a high volume then the gains are very substantial in one round, do you agree SM and others?

BTW, I plan a 3RD session for aesthetics in a few months.

I\'m not sure that I agree. We assume Smatman had huge gains, but he never actually measured his EG beforehand. However, if you look at the gains he made in Flaccid diameter they weren\'t that much bigger than Eastenders. Yet Smartman had about 15cc more injected. Eastender gained 1/2\" in Erect Girth from 20cc of 30%. We can assume Olafspo gained even less from the same amount. So given their Erect gains and the small difference in Flaccid gains, were Smartmans really likely to be that substantial?

Smartman says there was a huge difference between before and after, but anyone who has ever pumped over 1/2\" gain in one session will know the difference seems huge. So if Smartman gained 0.75\" in an hour, the transformation would seem vast. Yet I get the impression that most on here think Smartman had gains way beyond what we\'ve seen here before. But I\'m not at all convinced he did. I\'d guess he gained about 3/4\" to 1\" EG, which isn\'t out of the ordinary as some of our members have gained that from lower amounts and lower concentrations. I don\'t think the fact he had 30% made much of a difference 1st time round. I think the fact he had 35cc meant he had a better than average gain, but still suffered the diminshing returns we\'ve seen. I think 30% gives better gains second time around, but for initial injections I\'m not at all convinced of any significant difference. I\'m think volume does make a difference, but maybe not as much as we think in the initial injection.

Ok guys I have sent an e-mail to miracle7 to post my Flaccid pic. in Dr. Samy Passy\' thread.
I hope this pic. will help some of you and to give you an idea about the result of a penile PMMA after > 3 years (total of 47cc\'s @30%).
N.B. I got only 2 sessions with neither touch-ups nor the gap area, and I have an old mild peyronie\'s disease since a long time (which can definitely affect the aesthetic result of PMMA).
So the main reason why I have decided to post this pic. is just to prove that the penile Girth post-PMMA injection did stay in my case for > 3 yrs till now.

I\'ve personally seen Smartman\'s photos and can attest to his massive gains. His preoperative Girth is evident by the gap at the glans (neck) and apparent lack of transition (thus his desire for touch up). He has gained a TON.

Obviously, volume and concentration will make a difference as will the body\'s reaction (which will likely vary each round). I personally like the collagen \"density/feel\" of 20% but believe that much higher volumes would need to be implanted to see reliable and substantial long term gains. I received 21cc\'s of 20% and am 2' months post op with a '\" gain. At $2,500.00, that is just plain sad (especially considering I stand to lose more - up to 6 months). Also, like edupd, my wife barely notices a difference now and has lost interest once again. EP has had great success as well as others with 20% (though EP has sat in the chair 5 times.). Perhaps a database should be constructed that documents all facets relative to outcome. Age, penis length, concentration, pre/post Girth, volume, etc. There has to be a common denominator. Thoughts?

@mustang,
Yes the gain can be very substantial if the Dr. uses a high volume (but not with the lowest conc. e.g. 2% or 5%) IMO @30% or 20% are much better in regard of gain.
So of course more volume and more beads will give you more gain.
As all of us know in NewPlastic and Metacrill they have 3 conc.s (2%, 10% and 30%) and I read :-
2% ---> for superficial injections e.g. skin - wrinkles.10% ---> for mid-level injections e.g. fat.30% ---> for deep injections e.g. muscle.

I do understand that Dr. C. prefers the 10% for better aesthetic result (and I do respect that a lot) but still he will need touch-ups later on (it could be only for few touch-ups but still he need them). I think he just need to increase the volume more esp. in the 1st 2 rds.

I believe that supplemental criteria on the Patient Directory is warranted/needed. The platform initiated by SO was great for it\'s time. Alas, I believe it\'s time for an overhaul.

my two cents... I had 21cc\'s @10% and have gained an \'average\' 3/8\" MSEG. I actually measured last night immediately after sex and was at 5 7/8\". I had easily been at 6.25-.375 in the first few weeks post procedure, and am averaging 5.75, and as low as 5.6 (EQ varies greatly). I admittedly never \'truly\' measured my MSEG before the procedure, but put it at about 5.5. Flaccid gain is varies greatly but has actually seemed to \'stabilize lately around .5. I have a Flaccid Girth that approached 4.5 at the \'lowest/worst\' and 5-5.25 average. I really want a second procedure in hopes of maintaining a 6+ MSEG, but all of these variables make every procedure seem like a little bit of a crap shoot. If anyone does compile a database, I suggest including criteria like age, body type (meso/endo morph), and other \'extraneous\' variables that might help solve this mystery.

I spoke with Wade this afternoon and after reviewing my first session data, including before and after photos, and what the end results were after 5 months, what we\'re going to do on Wednesday is go with max volume (20+ cc\'s) of \"at least 20%\" solution. I took this to mean that the solutions they use are variable between 20 and 30% but I will confirm. It could just have meant 20% or 30%.

We\'re also going to stick with the large cannula as we didn\'t encounter any problems reaching all the way to the glans from the basal injection sites during session 1. The smaller cannula\'s are now just reserved for occasions when they encounter issues reaching certain areas.

One thing he did reiterate was that they are still cautious with the first sessions and prefer to use 10% as they want to build that initial layer of collagen. This helps with future sessions as the PMMA has less of a tendency to slide around with a solid layer of collagen on top of it. Since they inject new PMMA under the previous layer it creates a more aesthetic look if that original layer is nice and smooth to begin with, hence the lower solution and/or volume.

So, start with a conservative amount of 10% for the first session and then move to higher concentrations (and potentially more volume) on latter sessions to either fill out any irregularities and/or to further increase Girth.

I\'ll post again Wednesday night when I get back to the hotel.

Well, I\'m at the +5 hour mark now and just finished massaging the unit for about the fourth time already. If I could freeze the current shape for eternity, I would! Looks great. Here\'s what we ended up doing...

After chatting with Dr. C and Wade for a few minutes and showing them my latest Erect photos to get a sense of where they needed to focus they both agreed that 20% was the obvious choice. They were both happy with the results from the first session (minus the lack-luster Girth increase), particularly the even distribution of the collagen layer on which to build under.

Sticking with the large cannula he made three injection points: left, right, and dead center. This was different from the last time where he\'d made at least 6 that I recall. Also, the injection points are actually about a 1/4\" beyond the crease where the penis intersects the fat-pad. I will have to review my older pics at home but I could have sworn he\'d inject on the penis side of the crease the last time. The benefits to the new method are obvious as any scar tissue or residual PMMA will be in the fat-pad rather than on the base of the penis.

They commented early on that it was taking the volume of PMMA much better and it wasn\'t moving around hardly at all so they ended up injecting 24cc @ 20%. Man, did it feel weighty once I stood up. This ends up being 3.2 times more PMMA by concentration than session one. If the math stands up then it \"should\" net between 3/8\" and 1/2\" Inch.

I\'m also taking 200mg of CoQ10 with Fish Oil (fatty delivery system helps with absorption apparently) so we\'ll see if that makes any different also.

I also started taking Arnica in advance (5 days) this time so we\'ll see what sort of impact that has on recovery. I\'m also using the Arnica cream on the one spot that appears most bruised; right side just below the glans. Overall, it definitely looks more healthy than last time so I imagine it\'ll be less than 5-6 days for the bruising to completely clear.

Just for kicks I brought my mini-tape along (something I\'d forgotten the first time) and I\'m sitting at 6.5\" base, 5.375\" mid, 5.125\" neck. Of course, this means virtually nothing as I have approximately 19cc\'s of solution sloshing around that will get absorbed over the next day or so. We\'ll see how it looks at +3 days when I can start to compare to my measurements after session 1.

PS. Cialis rocks! Never taken one before but, my god, it certainly doesn\'t take much to get wood.

edupd wrote: PS. Cialis rocks! Never taken one before but, my god, it certainly doesn\'t take much to get wood.

Happy Healing! And yes, Mexico was where I first lost my Cialis virginity...amazing pill indeed!

S2 + 3days

Measurements
Pre-S2
S2 + 3 days
Net Gain
Starting Stats
S1 + 3 daysNet Gain
EL
6.25\"
5.75\"
-.5\"
6.25\"
6\"-.25\"
EG
5.5\" base
4.875\" mid
4.5\" neck
7\" base
5.5\" mid
5.125\" neck
1.5\" base
.625\" mid
.625\" neck
5.4\" base
4.6\" mid
4.4\" neck
6.5\" base
5\" mid
4.5\"neck1.1\" base
.4\" mid
.1\" neck
FL
4.5\"
5\"
.5\"
4.5\"
5\".5\"
FG
4.25\"
5\"
.75\"
4.0\"
4.5\".5\"

Observations:

I\'ve added in my stats from session one (S1 in grey) for comparison.The swelling in the neck is more persistent this time around likely due to the fact that much more PMMA was used in that region compared to S1. As a result the measurement is higher than it ought to be.Overall, the aesthetics still look pretty good but I am starting to develop the same ridges around the back side of the base but this is pretty unavoidable unless I somehow manage to keep my penis from laying flat against my scrotum 24/7. I just keep massaging it and we\'ll see how it ends up. Until the swelling dissipates a little more in the neck region (primarily the left side that got most of the volume to balance out the look) it\'s hard to see what it looks like.The mild bruising around the base is rapidly dissipating but the bruising on the right side of the neck (same as S1) is taking it\'s time. It\'s now settled into a deep purple hue right around the circ line. I\'ll just keep applying Traumeel cream to speed along recovery.The area around the intersection of the penis with the fat pad is quite a bit sorer and puffed out than S1 but considering how much PMMA went into that area this time, it\'s no real surprise. As expected, my EL is suffered.
Overall, the measurements at S2+3 days are on the average a 1/2\" better than S1+3 days so I\'m hopeful that this number will carry forward into an eventual 1/2\" gain over my pre-session 2 numbers. I\'d already planned to go back in 5-6 months again for a 3rd session but whether it\'ll just be for touch-ups or another big gain it\'s way too early to tell.