TOPIC: Non-permanent microsphere filler (Radiesse)- and a new temp filler at Avanti Derma

Hey all, long time lurker. Never posted before. Still spending many months reading, researching, and taking in all the info without losing sight of risks, both short and long term. I just had one question, as well as something to point out. The question being....I have only read very little about Radiesse Girth enhancement, including a super old thread that didn\'t go anywhere, and Restoration\'s minor usage (my best wishes to him in his battle). I know Dr C offers the temporary calcium microsphere product (Radiesse), but haven\'t really seen anyone who was using it here. I would be interested in going that route for a few rounds before i\'m \"married\" to PMMA for life. Also, while the spheres are temporary....why wouldn\'t the collagen surrounding it last forever like scaffolding? Arg. I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, I did make a valiant effort to find this information or discussion.

HOT NEWS- I haven\'t seen anyone mention this.....the Avanti Derma website just added a new \"temporary\" filler called PCL I believe. It\'s a new filler called \"Ellanse\" and appears to be longer lasting than Radiesse.

Good luck to everyone, and my sincere appreciation to those who document! The insight and fearlessness shown in making a community goes a LONG way. Will look into donating.

Scaffold tissue isn\'t collagen based as far as I\'m aware. The reason the tissue from Radiesse doesn\'t survive is because a bit like when a splinter is removed, the body stops reacting. Having said that, I\'ve often wondered if larger volumes of Radiesse would results in some permanent scarring.

We do have a couple of members who have had Radiesse and I know of another who is having it soon.

Ellanse isn\'t a new filler. Mikehok was researching it several years ago. But thanks for updating us that Dr C is now using it. I seem to remember Mikehok asked Prof Lemperle about it and he was skeptical it would last as long as claimed.

Nice first post and hi!

I just looked up Ellanse as I was confused by the claim that it can last 1-3 years, which is a huge spread. It turns out that the company is selling 4 different varieties, Ellanse (S, M, L and E) each supposedly lasts a year longer than the next. The E lasts 4 years according to the makers. I emailed Dr. C to see which kind he uses as I would be more interested in 3-4 years than 1 -2 obviously.

ellanse.com/consumer/about-ellanse/why-ellanse/

If there are no risks of serious complications, I think \"long term\" temporary fillers might start to be \"the way to go\". Any reply from the doc yet?

I should also note that Radiesse and Ellanse are listed as reversible on his website. Hmmm....short of degloving I don\'t know of an injectable reversal agent for these, only HA based products. Thanks your all your thoughts, guys! Greatly appreciated. I would be interested to know what \"type\" of PCL (for duration) he is using. I thought I saw that we could chose from any except the 4 year type as it is \"not available in Mexico\" per Avanti\'s website. I\'m happy to have contributed some new info!

Hoddle, I shouldn\'t have said scaffolding per se. I know it\'s not like a tissue implant, alloderm, or megafill (if megafill works as advertised). I just have doubts about why, if the Ellanse or Radiesse spheres cause collagen, why it would break down after the product does. That\'s neat Prof Lemperle gave some thoughts on Ellanse, and I do agree with joglift that if it DOES last up to that many years, it could indeed be \"safer\" and not too cost prohibitive to see a long lasting \"temporary\" or \"semi-permanent\" filler take the place of PMMA.

I have no evidence-based data to make this statement on, but I do believe that \"fillers\" are going to become the gold standard of Girth enhancement over the next ten-twenty years, as soon as America realizes it is sitting on a GOLDMINE that no one is tapping because of FDA fear, overly litigious medical culture, and social taboo. With a great collaborative effort among the plastics and urological communities we could shave off so many complications and irregularities it wouldn\'t even be funny. Nothing makes medical progress like the very real incentive of huge income at the end of an R&D phase.

Good luck to our member receiving Radiesse in the near future!

Lanton wrote: I should also note that Radiesse and Ellanse are listed as reversible on his website. Hmmm....short of degloving I don\'t know of an injectable reversal agent for these, only HA based products. Thanks your all your thoughts, guys! Greatly appreciated. I would be interested to know what \"type\" of PCL (for duration) he is using. I thought I saw that we could chose from any except the 4 year type as it is \"not available in Mexico\" per Avanti\'s website. I\'m happy to have contributed some new info!

Hoddle, I shouldn\'t have said scaffolding per se. I know it\'s not like a tissue implant, alloderm, or megafill (if megafill works as advertised). I just have doubts about why, if the Ellanse or Radiesse spheres cause collagen, why it would break down after the product does. That\'s neat Prof Lemperle gave some thoughts on Ellanse, and I do agree with joglift that if it DOES last up to that many years, it could indeed be \"safer\" and not too cost prohibitive to see a long lasting \"temporary\" or \"semi-permanent\" filler take the place of PMMA.

I have no evidence-based data to make this statement on, but I do believe that \"fillers\" are going to become the gold standard of Girth enhancement over the next ten-twenty years, as soon as America realizes it is sitting on a GOLDMINE that no one is tapping because of FDA fear, overly litigious medical culture, and social taboo. With a great collaborative effort among the plastics and urological communities we could shave off so many complications and irregularities it wouldn\'t even be funny. Nothing makes medical progress like the very real incentive of huge income at the end of an R&D phase.

Good luck to our member receiving Radiesse in the near future!

It breaks down, for the reason I mentioned above. When the microspheres are present the body is continually creating new collagen. Once the the microspheres absorb that stops. However, I\'ve wondered if this is true of large volume injections. We know from facial injections that once the Radiesse goes the the collagen goes. However, it\'s crossed my mind that if a large volume is injected, perhaps a bigger capsule might form around the whole lump and create a pocket of scar tissue that will remain after the the Radiesse and the collagen surrounding the individual spheres dissolves. A bit like we see with the Elist implant.

Personally, given Dr C\'s age and that he seems to be the only Dr offering this, I wouldn\'t be so keen on Ellance. Someone posted the other day that Dr C is 62. If the stuff lasts 4 years, then he could well be retired by then. I\'d rather have a product with a shorter life span, so if I hear he is retiring and nothing better has come on the market I could go back and have permanent filler. I wouldn\'t want to hear Dr C is retiring next year when I\'ve got another 3 years worth of Ellanse in me. Also if I do get a bad reaction I\'d much rather wait 18 months than 4 years. 4 years is along time to wait for a penis issue to resolve.

Yeah, you may be right. i know a doctor who does facial fat grafting, and he finds people who have used Radiesse (and even some HA fillers) to be problematic at times because of the fibrosis it left behind, even when it technically \"absorbed\". there\'s some left (and this is from 1-3 ccs x 3 times over the years, for example). In the face, it might not be as noticeable as in the penis long term...to an observer...but there\'s still some residual tissue in there. Try 20cc in the penis and who knows - it could last a long time. I\'ve only gotten 18 mos out of it in the temples, and 12 months in the cheeks, max.

The problem w/ Radiesse in the penis is that the price is going to go over $10,000 for the same cc of product as PMMA would be in 1 session. Did they give you a price? It\'s $700 at the cheapest surgeon near me (for the \"big syringe\" which is 1.5 cc - not 0.8 which is the medium size). update - Actually I have seen it for $400 at medispas and things like that, but such a huge price drop makes me wonder how it can be the same product. So, 20 cc is then $5300 for product alone (at this very cheap price) + whatever the doctor fees would be. So, 1 non-permanent full session would be about $6-7000 assuming they can get it this cheap.

It\'s all 20% calcium btw, there is no variation like metacrill. 20% is probably a better particle density than 30% that has caused lumps for many people with artefill/metacrill.

Thanks for your thoughts, Hoddle and Restoration. I understand your elaboration, Hoddle, it makes better sense now. And I think you\'re right about 10-20% being the ticket for mainstream use in the future, Restoration. I truly hope Dr C can train an apprentice before he retires, Wade should do the same. They need to know that what they are pioneering could change sexual health for many, many, men across the world. I also had a good laugh as I typed this, like i\'m referencing the Sith \"Rule of Two\" for the Star Wars fans among us. Darth Frenulus and Darth Phallus, if you will?

I am going to ask for the price breakdown on Ellanse and will post when I hear anything from Dr.C.