TOPIC: New HA filler claiming to last up to 5 years

Androfill wrote: The patient you refer to had a huge amount of filler in a very ambitious augmentation and the result looks impressive.

Yeah, later on he had more... but at the time he made the negative statement I quoted, he 23 ml--the first 15 plus 8 to touch up a few areas. And like I said, guys in the US would have spent 8 - 10k for that.... no thanks!

[guys in the US would have spent 8 - 10k for that.... no thanks!]

Ideally, anyone considering injecting filler in their penis would be financially secure, particularly with a non-dissoluble filler (so that money is not an issue if they have to deal with complications). But it is obvious that there are a lot of young patients without significant financial means, wanting this done while they are in their prime. I worry that this pushes them to put the economics of the decision ahead of the safety.

The least safe substance (PMMA), appears to be the cheapest for patients (excluding travel to Mexico), the medium risk substance (for argument\'s sake Ellanse), is the middle price, and the safest (Hyaluronic Acid) is the most expensive. This isn\'t ideal.

Ideally, I would personally try HA 1st before Ellanse or PMMA. If you like it then great, stop there and live within a modest size gain that you can afford to maintain. Safest and most sensible option.
Try a small amount first so perhaps 6ml. Not so much to be prohibitively expensive, but enough to give you a feel for the substance and experience with aftercare post Dermal Filler injection (moulding and shaping it as required). I guess 90% will stop at this stage without moving up the risk ladder.

If unhappy the next stage might be Ellanse for its reported texture and longer duration, with the benefit that the patient already has some experience with dermal fillers to the penis, moulding and shaping, and is more likely to get their part of the procedure right (critical because you have to live with the result of your moulding for 4 years).

Are the clinics using Ellanse 2,3 or 4-year version? This makes a difference to the cost calculation (and the risk profile). From the clinic\'s perspective, the 4-year version costs slightly less per ml than Juvederm Voluma, while the 3 and 2-year versions are quite a bit less.

Androfill wrote: Ideally, anyone considering injecting filler in their penis would be financially secure, particularly with a non-dissoluble filler (so that money is not an issue if they have to deal with complications).

You charge extra to treat any complications that your patients may experience from your procedures?

aleksk wrote: Sorry, given the commercial nature of your account, I don\'t have the time or the interest in educating you. I don\'t mean to be unfair to you, but if you really believe the things you say about Voluma and Teosyal Ultra Deep and uncut men, it only implies your doctor doesn\'t care, doesn\'t follow up, and is generally sloppy and not thorough when injecting and afterwards.

And even for guys who are circumzised, all we have to go by are documented reports on this forum. And I\'ve read as many (probably more) reports of dissatisfaction with voluma, for one reason or another, as I have reports by guys who were satisfied. So if its so great encourage your patients to post their experiences here. Otherwise, you\'re pretty much wasting your time.

aleksk wrote: Do you even know what an accordion effect is? Do you know that it only occurs in uncut men and that it is extremely common? Do you think one can fuck with an accordion?

The guy who started this thread is now complaining about it on another thread, and unfortunately it was with PMMA.

@aleksk, I think there are two distict issues--one is being uncut/accourdian effect which can happen with any filler, and the other is even in some guys who are circumsised the water absorbing aspect of HA (as you mentioned) can cause it to feel like a padded layer over the rigid tunica. Although much less severe than the first issue, it\'s really undesirable, especially when a sex partner notices. Combine that with needing frequent top ups and the expense....not good.

Do you know if @hoddle10 was cut or uncut? I know he had multiple kinds of HA and I\'m sure one was Teosyal ultra deep, but was unhappy with all of them and had them dissolved.

Aleksk, I am very glad that you\'re back on the forum. While I am often credited for being the most prominent supporter of Ellanse on this form, it is you who truly deserves it. Your early research work on Ellanse was compelling, and prompted further research on my part, the result of which led me to deem it superior to all fillers. In your absence, my focus has been on imparting the results of my research and focusing attention only on documented cases of Ellanse in the penis. More doctors have started using it for this application, the most prominent of which is Dr. Oates in Australia. Morganstern in Atlanta is a name that has popped up of late, but to date, he has not produced any documented cases. I continue to process all fact-based information related to Ellanse that comes through, but in the meantime, I\'m thankful of your return and hope you stay on board to see how this unfolds.

aleksk wrote: Thanks man, I am considering my next option as my HA is almost completely gone so that\'s why I am here.

I am Australian so I asked Dr Oates about Ellanse before his first case of using it for PE. I don\'t know if my question and research prompted him to trial it and then few other doctors picked it up based on the influence of this forum. When I started researching it no one offered it for PE, except for one case of a doctor formerly trialling it. If it picks up in numbers, Ellanse should pay me a percentage of their profits for popularizing hehehe.

But you\'re right, we don\'t have enough documented cases or objective data, and if I am not mistaken none in uncut men on this board, so for me it sounds as a risky option given the extent of the accordion effect I experienced with HA.

I am pretty much helpless in my options at the moment, trying to basically choose between the lesser evil.

Hi Aleksk, how much HA did you have and what was your starting size? I\'m interested in comparing it to my experience of the accordion effect. I had 8ml and then 10ml of voluma a year later so probably had about 15ml in my penis after that last procedure. I noticed some minor accordion effect but really wasn\'t an issue and i didnt really think about it. How bad was yours? I\'ve just had 10ml of PMMA with this italian dr and the accordion effect is really bad! I think there is a difference between how the two products attached themselves to my shaft. I dont think enough is mentioned about how these different fillers actually interact with the penis tissue. We only know that HA absorbs water and PMMA/ Ellanse promote collagen. There is soo much more about what they do in my opinion which effects results that we don\'t mention or know.

aleksk wrote: If I were cut, i would go for Ellanse.

mediatps wrote: I\'ve just had 10ml of PMMA with this italian dr and the accordion effect is really bad! I think there is a difference between how the two products attached themselves to my shaft. I dont think enough is mentioned about how these different fillers actually interact with the penis tissue. We only know that HA absorbs water and PMMA/ Ellanse promote collagen. There is soo much more about what they do in my opinion which effects results that we don\'t mention or know.

As @aleksk and @chester know, I opted for Ellanse because my take on HA is the same as @chester\'s and I didn\'t want PMMA. I had 12 ml and will go back for 8 more, and when I\'m done I will document everything. I had a couple of minor issues that are being dealt with, and only then will I go back for 2nd round probably in January.The only thing I will say now, because it\'s related to what we\'re discussing here is about the texture. In both Flaccid and Erect states I literally cannot tell its there, except for extra Girth. When Flaccid at 4\" length its feels the same as before and is symmetric, and when 6\" Erect it\'s rock hard and symmetric. I\'m at 10 weeks, so 80 percent of the CMC carrier should be gone, yet the Girth gain has been constant the entire time. I can\'t tell the difference from a week or two out when the initial swelling subsided to what it is now. It seems to have been be a seamless replacement of the carrier with collagen.Yes, there are lots of factors, and I think we need to factor out cut vs uncut, vs all the rest--type of filler, skin tightness, how its injected, metabolism, lots of other factors. But I would have thought that injected the same way in the same person, that PMMA and Ellanse would be very similar, and I know a lot of guys have said their PMMA feels natural. I can\'t speak for PMMA or being uncut, so I have no idea about the feeling that it\'s moving under the skin. I can only say that based on the 2 reports I read here (subtle77 and glam82) that Ellanse meets (actually exceeds) my expectations in terms of the way it feels and integrates.

Hi Everyone,

What a great discussion - I have not been on the site for a while.

So much I need to catch up on and comment on. I routinely use 4 access points and inject 360 degree around the shaft. I don\'t think that HA migrates that much, but it can be moulded into shapes - especially by shrinkage. HA has much more mould ability than Ellanse.

I love the results of Ellanse as do the patients. It worries me every time. Quite a few of these patients travel from overseas which would make sting issues more difficult. Fortunately things have all been fine so far. As I have mentioned before I have seen granuloma from Ellanse in the face. Big granuloma. They were manangable with injections of steroid but would hate to seem in a penis. I discuss this at length with patients. But it is very easy for patients (anyone one on any subject really) to gloss over the risks that are uncommon.

I don\'t really believe in external compression of blood vessels by filler (maybe in the tip of the nose) especially by HA in the penis. If there is a vascular problem it has been placed intravascular. At least with HA it can be rectified.

I will check back in again and see if there are specific questions I can answer.

Keep safe everyone.

I would doubt 5 yr HA - would like to see the evidence. Large particle size HA has been tried before. Restylane went up to Perlane then bigger with Sub Q then bigger with Macrolane. Macrolane was cheaper with a 10ml syringe and used for body work and phalloplasty.

Eventually Macrolane was withdrawn from sale in most markets and the online reputation was poor. I am interested but would like to know more.




Some description here www.urodoc.co/hyaluronic-acid-penis-enlargement.htm

\"We define 'temporary' as a procedure such as Cutegel ULTRA HA which will undergo a volume decrease of about 50% over a few years.
Older and less specialized varieties of HA were absorbed faster with less 'permanent' gain ' not more than 39% of the original HA volume.Cutegel ULTRA hyaluronic acid was specifically created for penis enlargement. It is more durable, resulting in retention of about 50% (or more) of injected HA volume. These special varieties are highly purified forms of HA produced by microbial fermentation to minimize immune and inflammatory responses. Only large-particle size HA is appropriate for penis enlargement.\"


Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

This is a great thread, great to hear experienced discussions. Question: I thought Voluma, although an HA filler, was specifically designed not to absorb water like other versions of HA fillers? Is this not the case?

Dr Oates wrote: Hi Everyone,
I love the results of Ellanse as do the patients. It worries me every time. Quite a few of these patients travel from overseas which would make sting issues more difficult. Fortunately things have all been fine so far. As I have mentioned before I have seen granuloma from Ellanse in the face. Big granuloma. They were manangable with injections of steroid but would hate to seem in a penis. I discuss this at length with patients. But it is very easy for patients (anyone one on any subject really) to gloss over the risks that are uncommon.

Hi Dr.Oates, do you know if those patients who gets Ellanse come from this forum? Or do they just find your clinic via google?
We only have 3 guys here who got it, all Circumcised. Would love to see more reports, specially from uncut guys.

Gg82 wrote:
Hi Dr.Oates, do you know if those patients who gets Ellanse come from this forum? Or do they just find your clinic via google?
We only have 3 guys here who got it, all Circumcised. Would love to see more reports, specially from uncut guys.

Only Glam came from PhalloBoards I believe.

Interestingly I had an email from our Sydney Dr saying he has had 2 guys with some nodes from the second session of Ellanse. He is otherwise an Ellanse trainer (face). It may be that they were done some weeks later at the hight of the collagen production response and more of mine the second session was at about 1 week. He has injected them with steroid/5FU but not seen them go down as quickly as he would like.

aleksk wrote:
Good question. Given that almost everyone in Australia is uncut, it would be a good idea to incentivise few uncut men to post here about Ellanse. It would be very good for your business, Dr Oates. I get questions from Australians about Ellanse regularly, but what do I know? I can only comment about my experience with HA only.

Also, if you do find someone to post, what we need to see is what they look like with the Foreskin pulled back, both Flaccid and Erect. Only this type of pictures are relevant and convincing.

Flaccid with the Foreskin over the glans - the usual you see on the websites, doesn\'t mean a thing. I shared my pictures with people here. My Flaccid Dick with relaxed Foreskin looked perfect. But once pulled back, both Flaccid and Erect it looked asymmetrical and distorted. The only true test is what it looks and feels like with the movement of the skin, not static Flaccid.

I hope you can provide some photographic evidence about this. Because if you read all the reports of guys who dissolved their HA, we all had the same problem. Looking great and even with the Foreskin over the glans, and distorted otherwise.

Thanks Aleksk,

You have a great mind for delving into what is really important. I will look further into it. Also some Ellanse patients with foreskins.