TOPIC: Collagen in PMMA Aftercare - Collection/Summary Thread

Hi there!


So... the pmma beads are surrounded by collagen the body produces, and the result is a fatter penis.
Of course people had the idea of \'helping the body make that collagen faster\'.

I am into researching right now because am thinking about getting PMMA (journal: phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/pla...68135?pid=1294881059 ),
so i am already thinking about aftercare (thread \'perfect aftercare for pmma\' here: phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/the...82459?pid=1294875130 )


So, collagen.
(spoiler alert: probably forget step 1 and 2, step 3 is only important one)

Step 1 was googling \'how to raise collagen\'
And basically everything is about the skin, women worry about that

In the skin more collagen is good,
and for collagen:
Smoking is bad, Sugar is bad ( www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/beauty-hair/tips/...s-to-boost-collagen/ )
Drinking enough water is good

blog.candylipz.com/best-ways-to-boost-co...uction-in-your-body/

Through nutrition, what helps:
1. Bone Broth
(how to make: )

2.
Vitamin ASweet Potatoes, Carrots, Iceberg Lettuce, Cod Liver Oil, Liver, Whole MilkVitamin CPapayas, Bell Peppers, Oranges (Citrus Fruits), KiwiVitamin ESun Flower Seeds, Almonds, Peanuts, AvocadoFatsOmega-3 Fatty AcidSulfur Rich FoodsCabbage, Cucumber, Celery, Turnips, Kale, Broccoli, Daikon, Radishes, Watercress, Mustard Greens, Swiss Chard, and AsparagusSuperfoodsAloe Vera Juice, Tofu
Also Garlic, Berries, omega 3

So i guess eating daily bone broth would be a good way
Meaty bones (knee, shoulder, feet, knuckle bones, feet) (i don\'t know where to buy this, i need to got to a real buther i guess),
(optional i guess 20min in the oven hot), then 24-72h slowcook in water
On the other hand sounds like a lot of work


Step 2 was googling Supplements
I want to go that route, i don\'t want to change my whole lifestyle, i just want to pop the pills and be ok with it

So i looked at examine.com, *the* source for scientific summaries of supplements, and typed in collagen

examine.com/supplements/glucosamine/
Glucosamine:
\"Studies show that supplementing glucosamine sulfate will reduce the rate of collagen (joint tissue) degradation and symptoms of osteoarthritis\"
It reduces collagen degradation, i don\'t know if this helps anything, cause in the penis it would just be about building up.

examine.com/supplements/methylsulfonylmethane/
Methylsulfonylmethane:
\"is a small sulfur containing molecule related to DSMO which is used for its antioxidative and antiinflammatory properties. It holds potential for joint health (not significantly different than glucosamine sulfate).\"
\"Methylsulfonylmethane might just simply be a way to negate a sulfur deficiency, and secondary to the improvements in collagen synthesis and oxidant defense (glutathione enzymes) it exerts benefits.\"

examine.com/supplements/type-ii-collagen/
Collagen
\"Collagen supplements are taken in one of two different forms, either in the form of hydrolyzed collagen or in the form of an undenatured type II collagen; both forms have different dosing strategies and while their benefits may share some similarities can be considered two different supplements.Hydrolyzed collagen is taken in doses of around 10g a day for skin health and some benefits to joints, and can be taken with meals. It should not be taken in higher doses as a protein supplement (for muscle gain and fat loss) due to having less efficacy than other protein sources and a lacklustre amino acid profile.Undenatured collagen is taken at a lower dose of approximately 40mg once daily for the treatment of osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis when there is an autoimmune component to it, and while it doesn\'t need to be taken at any particular time of the day it may be ideal to take it on an empty stomach before breakfast.\"Otheres: Hyaluronic Acid, Vitamin C, L-Lysine, L-Proline
collagencomplete.com/increase-collagen-production/




Hm.
I guess one could go cracy over this.

How long is this collagen-building phase? Starting from the pmma procedure and ending.. after 6 months? Read once that after 6 months the gains should have been stabilized.

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/col...87519?pid=1272992772 04/07/12
Miracle8x7:
According to the site on Metacril, collagen deposition begins in the 2nd week and persists up to 8 weeks. Everyone will respond differently.




Step 3 was reading all the threads here that have \'collagen\' in the title

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/pmm...67088?pid=1270932341 11/07/11
Dr Lemperle:
\"Unfortunately, there is no way to increase collagen production - as there is no way to speed up wound healing by stimulating certain fibroblast. The problem with loosing volume of the injected PMMA is the following: Directly after injection, e.g. within the first few days, all cellulose carrier will be absorbed and the body brings in fibrin first, which covers all PMMA. The total injected volume fades to about half ! During the second week to about 3 months, macrophages, giant cells, and fibroblasts invade the PMMA and form a granulation tissue - which has a greater volume then the lasting volume after about 6 months, when most macrophages left, the swelling disappears, and the left over macrophages and fibroblast form a lasting and remaining volume... after 6 month.\"

My comment:
Ooook - i can imagine that collagen is no limiting factor and collagen supplements don\'t help the process - like they also don\'t help heal wounds faster. In this logic the supplements and stuff would only help if your body wants to produce more collagen than you are able to produce. But we are not starving kids in africa, we are well-fed westerners, so this doesn\'t happen at all i guess.
I am not 100% sure on the whole thing and will go with some supplements just to be sure i guess.

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/inc...99209?pid=1273104621 04/17/12eqstudent:
Not sure what you are trying to accomplish but it is important to remember that collagen synthesis around a PMMA implant is part of the foreign body reaction. That local region is already soaked in IGF-1 and other anabolic molecules. It is likey neither possible nor even beneficial to try to increase collagen synthesis in a FBR/wound healing environment.

Miracle8x7:
Unless of course your liver doesn\'t receive adequate amounts of HGH to convert to insulin growth factor to do the job as proficiently as it did when you were younger. Aging is in part the body\'s inability to repair itself at the same rate it incurs damage. Anyone over the age of 30 will likely benefit from HGH whether bioidentical HGH or natural HGH via use of secretagogues and will note a marked difference in collagen deposition even as a foreign body reaction. HGH is in part also why children don\'t scar as badly as adults do, why they heal faster, have nicer skin, hair, nails, etc. IGF-1, (a protein) repairs damage. Without youthful levels of HGH, you\'re not producing enough IGF-1. It is INDEED possible to increase collagen deposition in a foreign body reaction and likely BENEFICIAL in our case (though clearly only in older individuals or individuals whose systems are somehow compromised).

eqstudent:
As far as biomaterial encapsulation and wound healing: PDGF, TGF-alpha and beta along with bFGF and IL6 are much more important than the IGF1 pathways that are mediated by HGH. I did my Masters Thesis in this field. If you get a cut, splinter, external infection from a parasite, or implantation of PMMA beads the foreign body reaction (FBR) response springs into effect without any involvement of the HGH pathways. The HGH pathways are not even triggered!

The HGH pathways are systemic, the FBR are local. Just because you have a PMMA beads in your dick does not require increased collagen production in your entire body, you just need those beads encapsulated.

Mustang2020:
So is there any way to improve collagen build up around PMMA in the penis, if one is over 40 years old? or is Vitamin C of 1000 mg daily is a good alternative?

Eqstudent:
Collagen encapsulation of the PMMA beads is part of the immune response pathways not the normal growth/tissue remodel mechanisms so immune boosters may be a more logical place to look. There may be downside to any such approach; it may turn the FBR response into a FBG response. There have been papers which show that immune enhancement therapy have triggered granulomas in patients with PMMA implants!In the end if one is healthy without any deficiencies I suspect there is no way to tell the system 'deposit more collagen around the beads'. You are going to get what your genetics dictates. I would think good nutrition, high intensity exercise and 1.5 to 2 g protein per Kg body weight will help. Anabolic steroids may also help.Check out this wound healing paper.

Miracle8x7:
Both JustABitMore and swampman are taking recombinant HGH and there results have been superior to the average patient. Whether localized or systemic, the healthier you are, the better you heal. No one is going to argue with that. HGH was demonstrated in clinical trials to greatly improve wound healing. I DO believe collagen deposition volume is primarily based on genetic predisposition and current state of health.

eqstudent:
From the paper on woundhealing: \"A 50% increase in wound collagen as well as a doubling of tensile strength was noted at 3 weeks with oxandrolone. Histology also revealed more densely packed collagen with more fibroblasts and mononuclear cells.\" -> this is a steroid

eqstudent:I have gotten PMs and chats on this topic so I want to clarify a couple of key points in 1 place.There is a misconception that has been created on this site that there is a collagen deposition event that occurs a week or so after implantation of PMMA. This has led members to look for external ways to increase collagen production hoping to get a bigger size increase from the procedure.The reality is far more complex than the CW on this site. The FBR starts within hours of implantation of the PMMA beads and lasts for the lifetime that those beads are in your body. Over that time collagen along with other ECM elements will be deposited and destroyed over and over again. The collagen that is deposited will not be the same 6 months later and so on.Medical device companies have been searching for decades to change this process with almost no success.I am not suggesting or recommending that anyone take anabolic steroids in an effort to get a bigger size increase from their PMMA procedure. There is absolutely no evidence that anabolic steroids or any other external factor would increase the size gains from a PMMA procedure.
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My comment:
Ok, this is a great discussion.What i believe now:
The only thing that helps wound healing is Human Growth Hormone and Steroids -> and if this helps anything for final growth of penis is also unlikely.
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phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/col...24552?pid=1269636445
08/04/11
Zmann: As far as stimulating collagen growth Equipoise is supposed to stimulate collagen production by around 300%

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/ste...79981?pid=1274714772
08/21/12
Irishfan: Some roids will be bad for collagen. But
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn.
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I\'ve read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures.

Miracle8x7:
Increasing collagen synthesis through anabolic/androgenic AAS\'s will not increase your gains from PMMA. Gains are a result of the body\'s natural immune response to a foreign body. This has already been covered.
Steroids are not going to increase your gains! They will likely be the same regardless of steroids.

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/pep...83348?pid=1273880038
Trying:
Product Name: Matrixl: In clinical studies, Matrixyl was shown to: - Increase overall collagen synthesis by up to 117% - Increase collagen IV synthesis by up to 327% - Increase hyaluronic acid synthesis by up to 267%

phalloboards.websitetoolbox.com/post/col...76573?pid=1287687065
06/19/15
coolhandluke:
Collagen supplements don\'t work in this hobby, do you want expensive urine, buy some vitamin C, its out of your system with under an hour. As long on your maintain good hygiene, restful sleep, your HGH levels should be optimal, keep stress levels down with moderate exercise, and do not smoke. The whole collagen debate is more of a uncontrolled reaction your body takes in response to this foreign material being injected inside you. Its not some miracle phenomenon where you can build collagen like you build muscle mass, you\'re gravely mistaken if thats your goal. Human physiology (biology) doesn\'t behave like that. And those 12 o\'clock 5 minute info commercials trying to sell women collagen anti wrinkle cream, is all pseudo science, if something worked, legitimately worked, Dr. Casavantes would have been prescribing it to all his past present and future pmma patients. I was an ignorant patient like yourself at some point, but I put this conversation to rest after I took some upper division physiology/immunology coursework and there isn\'t an advanced science that could give you a collagen growth edge, there might be some in vitro studies, but like i said, any suggestions any person makes to you are guesses on what pills to take. Talk to the Doctor about this question, and he\'ll agree with me.

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My comment:
I guess i will not use supplements because of the underlined explanations of step 3.

Great discussion on collagen production. I am getting circumcised this week and going with Dr. C and PMMA around 90 days after that. Being 50, I\'m certainly interested in maximizing collagen production after getting PMMA. Collagen production decreases with age and anything I can do to stop, or slow that down is definitely something I\'m looking into. For me, the answer will most likely be in steroids (one of oxandrolone, Equipoise or Deca-Durabolin) and/or injectable peptides like Matrixyl or Syn-Coll ( www.peptidesciences.com/syn-coll ). I was searching the boards here and haven\'t found anyone taking Syn-Coll. Any link or input from the members on Syn-Coll would be appreciated.

Starting measurements:

BPEL: 6.25\"
EG: 5\"

I\'ll post pics once I\'ve paid my membership and can look at before and after pictures of our other members.