TOPIC: Concensus on contemporary lig cuts (non VY). Elist vs Rosenthal debate

Hello gents,

I had the Elist implant \"experience\" (insertion, infection, Removal) and recently had dr Elist remove some scar tissue. I am back to square one (before PE surgery) except with less money and a numb dorsal shaft from nerve damage.

I consulted with both Dr Elist and Dr Rosenthal about getting the ligs cut because my goals are to:
1) become a shower not a Grower (stop turteling)
2) gain Flaccid length
3) gain Erect length

Dr Elist refuses to do a lig cut on me because he believes that people more often heal shorter because of scar tissue retraction. He also says I\'m too lean (I\'m a tall skinny long distance runner) to get a lig cut because there isn\'t any fat to stitch into the defect to stop lig reattachment.

I had a consultation/evaluation with Dr Rosenthal and he said that people only have scar tissue retraction problems from the old VY method. He only does the contemporary horizontal incision method. Dr Rosenthal also said that you don\'t need to stitch fat into the defect because he removes so much tissue that he rarely ever sees his patients reattach.

Dr Elist believes that ligaments are more elastic then scar tissue and Dr Rosenthal believes scar tissue is more elastic then ligaments. So Rosenthal is pro lig cut and Elist is against the lig cut.

I want to hear from those who have had or personally know someone who have had their ligs cut:

1) should I contact Dr Gary Alter for a third opinion and evaluation? (he is expensive so not my first choice)
2) did you stop turteling after your lig cut?
3) are you happy with your lig cut and would you recommend a lig cut to a guy like me
4) any other advice and comments are appreciated

I\'ve tried Manuel PE, traction devices, Hanging and pumps way before PE surgery (about 7 years experience) and found that all gains are always lost when I discontinue PE, even when I were consistent for a long period of prescribed time. My penis and ligs seem to have a \"use it or lost it\" phenomenon like you would muscle growth except in terms of flexibility and expandibility.

All the best brothers,

-cvbbc

Bump, any advice?

1) should I contact Dr Gary Alter for a third opinion and evaluation? (he is expensive so not my first choice)
Contact Dr Reed in Miami - he did mine and it was the horizontal cut. I am not sure how contemporary it is as I had mine done 19 years ago and his prices are very reasonable.

2) did you stop Turtling after your lig cut?
Yes, but I didn\'t turtle much before, and I had fat grafts done at the same time that also keep you from retracting, but after the surgery my Flaccid was between 6-7\" (with the grafts in and from Hanging every day). You have to hang to see any major gains Erect, and I don\'t know what would happen if you just had the surgery and did nothing in terms of your Flaccid gains. After a year and a half of a lot of Hanging I got a 1.25\" increase in Erect length and it never went down. I just got to 1.5 for a very brief time - just as I stopped out of boredom, and it settled at 1.25\" and has stayed ever since.
*edit* ever since I had my grafts taken out my Flaccid is between 5-6 usually and sometimes 4, so the graft had something to do with the gains I got after the lig cut.

3) are you happy with your lig cut and would you recommend a lig cut to a guy like me
I am very happy with it but hate recommending anything as I may have just dodged a bullet, I have seen a lot of bad outcomes, but if I was going to do it, I would go to Reed.

4) any other advice and comments are appreciated
I don\'t know that it is quite as life changing as you are hoping. The Flaccid gains are not huge - if I did not have the grafts in, I am not sure what it would have come to in terms of Flaccid gains.
You will almost certainly see nothing in terms of Erect gains from it. I am not sure if people are just different or your routine was different, but rule of thumb is that you need to put in a minimum of 8-10 day, at least 6 days a week for a year to see changes - at least in my case. The first 4 months I got next to nothing from what I recall. Also it happens in fits. It is not like you just get a little every day, also just my experience.

Lastly - Elist is a freak, and I would not consider talking to him as a legit consultation.

I just can\'t believe Dr. Elist refused doing surgery on you because he was actually concerned about you losing length! Are we talking about The Dr. Elist who practices in Beverly Hills?

Thank you hunkydory for your helpful comments. I wish more people would be so generous since I\'m almost certain I will be getting my ligs cut.

Messageman, yep I was shocked too. He is planning on retiring soon so the Elist implant surgeries may end if he doesn\'t get other doctors to take over this type of implant surgery. I feel bad for the patients who will have to have it removed by inexperienced doctors when he retires.

I\'m also curious messageman, do you have any helpful information on ligament releases? I know you had one but I\'m not sure if it was a VY or horizontal. Did turteling end for you? Did you net usable length?


I\'m thinking I\'m gonna get it cut by Rosenthal since he is local. And then hang 20mins twice a day in the shower with my malehanger and wear the autoxleeve 1lb the rest of the day and night

I had the VY in 2002 by Barron.
I\'m not happy with the scar.
I was not told that I needed to stretch while healing, so I didn\'t, and I think that\'s why I turtle severely. Turtling did not stop. I still do pretty badly.
I lost nerve sensation due to the VY. Parts of my shaft are numb. I have to go pretty hard and long to have an orgasm.
Horizontal would have been better in my opinion. Stretch that baby after the surgery. Put vit E or whatever on the surgery site so that it doesn\'t cicatrize so badly.
It didn\'t give me any Erect length, but the stretched Flaccid got about an Inch if I recall.