TOPIC: A beginner

Hi everyone!

I\'m interested in possibly doing the ligament cut surgery to lengthen my penis. From what I\'ve read the surgery is relatively simple, relatively low-risk, and moderately effective. Currently I\'m about six inches in length.

I\'m considering getting it done in Argentina, where I lived for some years and where plastic surgery in general is pretty common and relatively cheaper than NYC, where I am at the moment.

I would like to ask other people about their experiences, what I should expect, and what I should not expect. From what I hear, the healing process takes a while and exercises are necessary, is this true? And what about retraction? Is it common for this to be permanent, or only temporary as the body heals?

Regarding thickening the penis (I\'m forgetting the English word at the moment), I am more sceptical. A lot of people get fat re-absorbtion and it seems much less likely to be successful. Also, I don\'t think I am that thin there anyway. In any case, I wrote to a doctor in Argentina and got a quote (3.200 USD) for both, along with a claim that with combination of my tissue and imported fats uneven reabsorption won\'t occur. My penis tends to get fatter as it gets to the base, so I don\'t feel particularly insecure about that, that said, for not much more money.... why not? What is the general state of expectations regarding thickening?

After having written this, I oddly feel far less embarrassed than I suppose I should feel. Women get breast surgery, if I want a bigger Dick and can pay for it, why not?

I thank you for all your kind replies in advance.

Thanks!
Andre in NYC.

So does that mean from penis lengthing surgery, you don\'t gain any Erect length?

That\'s good to know. I\'ve almost completely rid my routine of Jelqing. I\'m Debating on to just keep it in because I\'m so used to it. Lately I\'ve just found myself stretching for almost 30 min them pumping to get the blood flowing again. I plan on getting Girth gains from PMMA after I get a desired length and job.

Valens999 wrote: Thank you guys, your comments caused me to fall down the rabbit hole of research. I read on the PEgym and other forums, then I did some academic searches at my university to see what the medical literature has to say about these various methods.

Basically, evidence supports penile extenders as effective in lengthening but not thickening the penis by about .6 in over 6 months. Data indicates they are effective, and post-treatment measurements 6 months, 9 months later show the same gains without retraction. Results vary, but study participants all gained in the studies I saw.

There was one interesting review article comparing surgery to extenders and others, and after accumulating data from 10 data sources, the researcher found the extenders are more effective than (ligmentosis) surgery. Also they seem to have negligible side effects. \"Exercises\" (jeqling?) not found effectve, as well as supplements and the pump.

Please submit any links if these articles can be found online (and assuming they haven\'t been posted before).

Thank you guys, your comments caused me to fall down the rabbit hole of research. I read on the PEgym and other forums, then I did some academic searches at my university to see what the medical literature has to say about these various methods.

Basically, evidence supports penile extenders as effective in lengthening but not thickening the penis by about .6 in over 6 months. Data indicates they are effective, and post-treatment measurements 6 months, 9 months later show the same gains without retraction. Results vary, but study participants all gained in the studies I saw.

There was one interesting review article comparing surgery to extenders and others, and after accumulating data from 10 data sources, the researcher found the extenders are more effective than (ligmentosis) surgery. Also they seem to have negligible side effects. \"Exercises\" (jeqling?) not found effectve, as well as supplements and the pump.

Vallens, If I were u Id try doing PE first, whether Hanging , extending, or an ads device, just get busy with it, I have all 3 and the Hanging seems to work best for me, the ADS doesent seem to put enough stress on it for me and the extender is a pita and hard to wear outside the home. So I just reserve a few hours at night, watch a movie or surf the net while Hanging. the main thing is be consistent and gradually strive for more weight or tension. From what Ive read PE is unlike any other form of exercise in that it causes cell division as opposed to cellular growth . Many people think you need to take rest days like one on one off, but that may allow the penis to heal too much, you end up with a very strong penis but not necessarily a long one, you want to \"ride the fatigue\" keeping it constantly under stress but not so much that you injure yourself. Anyway this is all what i\"ve read at PE gym and mostly Bibs website.

IMO, the best way to gain length is to use a stretching device. No doctor I\'ve ever met with has agreed to do a lig cut because they say you won\'t gain length & may even lose length - and that\'s after stretching for the first 3-6 mos post-op to make sure it doesn\'t retract on you. Also, a few said it can give your Erection an unusual angle in some cases (straight down, I think - but maybe they fixed this complication). Other people here know more about it, but I had this discussion with a number of docs since I lost length due to peyronies disease. Using an all-day extender gave me a little length back...probably 1/2\". There are also a lot of exercises out there too, but I don\'t know about those... you can read PEgym\'s intro threads and see what you think. There are also sub-forums here on lengthening without surgery. I\'d try that & avoid surgery.

Thanks for the replies.

1. I referred to 6 in Erect. Pressed or not pressed doesn\'t make a difference since I don\'t have much fat.
2. I guess I was somewhat misled by what I read on doctor\'s websites regarding the effect of a ligament cut. The procedure is in fact very simple, which is why I was more favourably inclined towards this procedure. After reading Bullsnake\'s experiences I\'m more doubtful now. I mean, if the gains just come from Hanging rather than the lig cut, well then just save the pain, expense, and inconvenience of the operation and try Hanging which is relatively safe compared to an operation, albeit a simple one.
3. Regarding Girth, it seems most people do take this route from the boards. PMMA seems to have its pluses and minuses, and that of course gives me pause. I\'ve never had so much of a Girth problem, I don\'t think, but then I\'d be willing to go for extra thickness if extra length were not available.
4. From having read, it seems the state of the art for all of these procedures is surprisingly poor. One would think it would be a relatively high-demand medical intervention, which someone would have researched and implemented in a rigorous way, but that is not the case. Unlike nose jobs or breast enhancement, or even more difficult/complicated surgeries like gender reassignment surgery, the prospects appear notably undeveloped. This situation is complicated by some doctors with questionable ethics with little external/empirical oversight.

I actually have a science/medical background, to a degree, so I\'m open to hearing more information from the many here who have first-hand experiences, but my takeaway from reading is that really nothing seems to work and most things offered out there have a high probability of secondary effects. Correct me if I am wrong.

Valens999 wrote: Hi everyone!

I\'m interested in possibly doing the ligament cut surgery to lengthen my penis. From what I\'ve read the surgery is relatively simple, relatively low-risk, and moderately effective. Currently I\'m about six inches in length.

I\'m considering getting it done in Argentina, where I lived for some years and where plastic surgery in general is pretty common and relatively cheaper than NYC, where I am at the moment.

I would like to ask other people about their experiences, what I should expect, and what I should not expect. From what I hear, the healing process takes a while and exercises are necessary, is this true? And what about retraction? Is it common for this to be permanent, or only temporary as the body heals?

Regarding thickening the penis (I\'m forgetting the English word at the moment), I am more sceptical. A lot of people get fat re-absorbtion and it seems much less likely to be successful. Also, I don\'t think I am that thin there anyway. In any case, I wrote to a doctor in Argentina and got a quote (3.200 USD) for both, along with a claim that with combination of my tissue and imported fats uneven reabsorption won\'t occur. My penis tends to get fatter as it gets to the base, so I don\'t feel particularly insecure about that, that said, for not much more money.... why not? What is the general state of expectations regarding thickening?

After having written this, I oddly feel far less embarrassed than I suppose I should feel. Women get breast surgery, if I want a bigger Dick and can pay for it, why not?

I thank you for all your kind replies in advance.

Thanks!
Andre in NYC.

Switch it all around. Lengthening (especially Erect) is elusive, and Girth is more attainable. Both are risky. 6\" is more than plenty. Good luck.

6 Inch Flaccid hang is pretty big. I assume you are referring to Erect length? You are aware that a lig cut does not lead to Erect increases?

Dont expect much from the lig cut and even then you will have a lot of work ahead of you to make a difference, I went from highly anticipated to well maybe I could have gotten this without the lig cut? Ive been doing PE for over 2 years and have to say the best gains I got were from Hanging. my gain curve was about the same as before the lig cut, but then again I kinda hit a plateau before it.

Skeptical One wrote:
Please submit any links if these articles can be found online (and assuming they haven\'t been posted before).

These are the most relevant.

Ordera and Gontero (2010)
Read the whole thing
See: Multiple references regarding each of the tests. Note the methodologies.
Note: Gains from extenders have substantial evidence behind them from multiple studies. Gains are modest but seem to be real and relatively permanent (post-tests after months of no therapy whatsoever shows the same gains). To editorialise a bit, I\'d say that all these extender studies have one thing in common: tension on the penis over a long period of time. So I think hanging, which was not investigated, probably would be effective. This is the best paper I\'ve found, the most modern (unfortunately) and definitely collects the largest volume of evidence for consideration.
www.maleedge.com/skin/frontend/default/m...e-lengthening-v2.pdf

Ghanem et al. (2013)
Read: Surgical interventions and conclusion.
Notes: Generally regarding surgery. Length gains are not supported by much empirical evidence. Authors stated \"girth enhancement has been more successful as it did provide real increase in girth (3'4 cm), dependent on the take and type of the graft [28,38'43].\" Also many patients are not satisfied with results. Briefly reviews stretching studies, and concludes more complex double-blind studies with better education of subjects, etc are needed. Editorialisation: I completely agree. \"Limited data support the use of stretching devices for penile augmentation,\" but surgeries are near- not recommended.DOI: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2012.02725.x (search this and you will find it)

Nikoobakht et al. (2011). Notes: \"Our finding supported the efficacy of the (penis extender Golden Erect) device in increasing penile length.Our result also suggested the possibility of a glans penis girth enhancement using the penile extender. Performing more studies is also recommended.\" Does not support penile shaft enhancement of girth, just head and length.

This is a newish study and the methods seem relatively solid. Wiley and Eardley (2007)
See: \"Physical Treatments\"
See: Referenes 30, 31, 32
Notes: Gains from extending devices, including phallosan, etc. Some of the treatment windows (20 m x 3 /each week) seem far less intense than what people generally do on PE forums. So be careful to look at methodologies, not just results. Also, this article is obsolete, since it is relatively old.
dx.doi.org/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2007.06806.x

Conclusion:
To prepare for writing this, I read these again to a degree. Some themes emerge: literature is concerned with why men want an increase, I find this to be a point of bias. It should be conceptualised as a plastic surgery, and less emphasis should be placed on psychosocial interventions to convince patients they don\'t want what they want. That said, for some counseling may be effective.

Regarding Jelqing, the literature seems dismissive, but on closer inspection, I don\'t see evidence of either it working or not working. That is to say, no one did a study that I can find. Extenders are easier to study than jelqing because they are essentially standardized - everyone gets the same phallosan, the same Andropenis, etc. The subjects only need to learn how to operate it, and how long to leave it on, and then six months later, measure. For exercises, everyone is obviously different, some penises are larger or smaller, thicker or thinner, cut or uncut. It quickly becomes a methodological nightmare. And of course other factors, like grip, etc. are all concerns. On a personal note, I am very very uncut, so jelqing exercises for me require modification to be effective. There\'s just no way for me to do it as instructed.

Regarding surgery, it seems clearly indicated to be a thing of last resort with uncertain results and high dissatisfaction. Girth is obtainable, but length not so much from existing surgeries.

Regarding Penile extenders: evidence supports they increase length, and some evidence supports penis head increase. They probably do not increase girth on the shaft (though that last study from 2011 indicates they do). Most importantly: they do not decrease penis girth either (Ordera & Gontero, 2010, p. 1281); so it does not seem that one is simply streching out ones penis and losing girth. Rather something else is going on.

Where does this lead us? Penile extenders don\'t seem to be a waste of time.

If you have any questions, I\'d be happy to try to answer them.