TOPIC: PMMA in large amounts.... cost?

Skeptical One, I think it is important Dr.C addressed this issue and did not ignore it. Thank God, this forum knows a good doctor to use. There are a lot of cosmetic surgery clinics in South America that have qualified doctors, but many women are only find out months after supposed cheap PMMA injections, that they were injected with silicone e.t.c when complications arise.

I think it is only fair someone can ask a question like this, when they are going to have a substance, that is permanent and they will be stuck with for the rest of their lives. As I said before, it\'s obvious Dr C uses PMMA in penis injections, it\'s the only thing that won\'t migrate. If he did use a cheap PMMA, I wouldn\'t have a problem with it as long as it was safe.

Interesting Dr C clinic might use this forum?

xander86 wrote: Interesting Dr C clinic might use this forum?

They are most certainly aware of it. Their nurse was the one who first pointed me here. I asked if they had any Erect pics since their before/afters are all Flaccid. They directed me here since they don\'t have or share those.

Posted by carljohnson:

I asked if they had any Erect pics since their before/afters are all Flaccid. They directed me here since they don\'t have or share those.

Most Phalloplasty physicians do not keep photographic record of the patient\'s Erect penis. There are several reasons for this. One big one is that aesthetically, the Flaccid result is typically superior to the Erect state. I\'m sure you can imagine other factors that elude physicians from obtaining/documenting Erect photos. Just one more reason for this wonderful forum!

Guys I have to disagree with you on this one. To me it looks like a long letter that could have just said \"No I will not let you see me fill the syringe with Metacril\"

I don\'t believe it would take that long to fill a small syringe, no medical person is that patient. And how many weeks would it take to fill remove 500cc for a butt injection. His numbers do not make sense. I bet the guys who went to Dr N in europe can confirm this.

Finally SO\'s arrogant attitude, you came to him, he didn\'t come to you so don\'t question his practice, is not cool at all, especially since you are the admin and claim this board is not supposed to favor certain doctors. BTW if I had faith in the title of MD I would have called Dr Elist a long time ago. BB has the right to challenge Dr\'s BS just like everyone else here does.

It is clear bigben called his bluff and now he is unwilling to show his cards. He will show you a few cards from another deck (an old metacril box), but he will not show you his cards. Like xander said it it probably PMMA, but god knows from where.

So glad this new info is out here, since I now have not doubt PMMA is NOT for me.

Good luck to everyone else though. And I can understand why you would not say bad things about him since he lurks here.

Snoopy you are so disingenuous.

If you or BigBen bothered to read from the very beginning, you\'d know it was never a secret that Dr C was mixing 10% and 30% to make 20%. BigBen made a big deal of this, but no one bothered to respond to him. Also, in Mexico the law is different to Brazil, so Dr C can make his own PMMA if he wishes in the same way the rival TJ clinic do. He\'d have absolutely no reason to claim to be using Metacril or NP if he wasn\'t. The brand of PMMA has become a PhalloBoards concern, based on reports from people like Dr C.

The fact that people on this board so openly question Dr C\'s ethics based on little more than nationality seems incredibly xenophobic to me. I\'ve had botox before in both the US and UK and never once been shown the packaging.

BigBen also wasn\'t the first person to post the Lemperle story. Those who have done their research will have seen it posted several times in the past. I\'m not being critical of BB, but he really hasn\'t brought anything new to light regarding PMMA. He hasn\'t called his bluff at all. BB simply didn\'t know his stuff.

I don\'t think Dr C does 500 ml injections. Again this is something I know from reading everything I can.

Everyone has every right to challenge the opinions of any Dr. We do it all the time and have been incredibly critical of so many Dr\'s in this industry. But we can\'t be critical of a Dr based on little more than a xenophobic attitude. Look at how heavily criticized Dr Loria was and with good reason. Look at the criticism Elist gets and again with good reason. But is being Mexican or working a Mexico a good enough reason to start vigorously pursuing conspiracy theories? I\'ve stated several times I don\'t like how the PMMA procedure has evolved or the lack of patient profiling by Dr C, but this is very different to basically accusing him of being dishonest and injecting unknown substances. Maybe I\'m wrong, but I honestly can\'t see what the motivation for questioning Dr C\'s ethics are other than him being from and working in Mexico. This to me personally isn\'t cool at all. I\'ve never once heard of anyone suggesting that the Dr\'s prove the source of their allografts for example.

@Snoopy

I\'ve seen box after box of Meta<>Crill' and NewPlastic' (NewPlastic' back at my first procedure). Not just a single box for \"demo\" purposes. I also watched Dr. Casavantes pull out the vials from the box and fill the syringe. You are alert and can view the whole procedure. Dr. Casavantes even took the time to show me the expiration date and informed me of the counterfeits of the past and what they looked like. You act as if every person (including the Administrator of the forum) simply blindly trusts the good doctor. It seems that you are the arrogant one if you honestly believe that we\'re nothing more than sheep and perceive Avanti Derma as our Mecca and Dr. Casavantes as our savior. Also, neither Dr. Casavantes nor Wade nor Mel care about \"lurking\" around our forum. They know of it and are happy it exists. No Phalloplasty procedure is perfectly safe and without risk of deformity. Dr. C presented himself as an \"open book\" to me. Every question I had; answered. All physical evidence (vials, blunt-microcannulas/boxes/seals); presented to me. I\'m glad you decided against PMMA. I\'m confident that neither SO nor any Moderator suggested you have the procedure. Obviously, whether one choose PMMA in Europe/Brazil/Mexico and independent of what Dr. performs the procedure, complications can and DO occur. Too risky for ya?... Don\'t do it.

Hoddle, thank you for replying to my post.

I think you did not understand me. I have nothing against Dr C because he is mexican. Hell more of my neighbors are hispanic than white.

My gripe is very simple. As BB said, he will not let the patient see him fill the vial with the PMMA. This is what I meant when I said BB called his bluff. He asked for proof the PMMA was metacril by having the patients watch the syringe get filled.

If he was using the brand metacril he could of simply said to CJ, \"sure I will let you watch my nurse fill your syringes\". Instead he sends him a 3 page damage control letter, which like his original message to CJ says \"no we will not let you see us fill the syringes\"

With this in mind I would not trust the guy. That is all I need to know, nothing more, nothing less.

I agree it is certainly not illegal. But is it unethical, my answer is yes.

Finally if I had PMMA in my penis I would want to be damn sure I knew where it came from and the lot number, so if there was a recall or like such, I could get the right help.

You guys obviously are much more in favor of Dr C, vs the other MDs, so I will just leave it at that. Each member can make his own decision about penis enlargement options.

Miracle you obviously got the right stuff. congrad\'s the doctor likes you. probably because you write good things about him on the forum. yes he lurks here, that is why he wrote the letter.

Also, were you there all day watching him fill the syringes ? No of course not. Thank you for confirming what I already new, the letter contained a lie about how long it takes to fill a syringe. shameless behavior by the doctor. shameless.


How can you say this guy is more honest than Loria or Elist ?

Interesting viewpoint Snoopy. I\'m glad you have decided against the procedure. That is the point of this forum, is it not? So each of us can decide once and for all if we wish to proceed with this newer technique. So for you this forum has served its purpose. That\'s a good thing in my opinion. You should show appreciation towards the mods...regardless of their opinion, this board led you to your decision, it has been valuable for you. Period.

That being said, if you have second thoughts and reconsider the procedure I suggest if you have concerns with Dr C that are not resolved by his letter that you address them directly with his office. I suspect if you said, \'the only way I\'d feel comfortable proceeding is if I can watch the vial filling process\' they might find a way to make an exception for you. This is totally just my hunch...do not assume I have any inside information. If nothing else he might be willing to show you the filling process that is probably going on for the following day\'s procedures. If that still isn\'t enough proof then don\'t do it. When I\'m there in 7 days I may ask if he wants to show me anything about this process for my own peace of mind but also so I can elaborate on it to see if we can close this concern once and for all.

Snoopy, with all due respect, its fine to be skeptical but without ANY proof your harsh tone comes across as immature.

For what its worth, for me, two things made me more comfortable with this decision:

1. S.O. makes a good point, if my wife was getting a boob job I never would have asked to see the implants before hand to verify them. Same goes for any medical procedure. I have never asked to see proof that anything a Dr was using was authentic.

2. According to what I\'ve read Dr C is a very respected doctor. By all accounts he has a successful business going on here. Do you think he would risk his business and prosperity by using an inferior product just to make a couple hundred extra bucks per patient? He could just as easily raise his prices. If his customers pay $2500 do you really think he would get less business if he raised the rate to $2750 or $3000? I don\'t...and that would be a lot easier way to make a few hundred extra rather than trying to trick your customers (many of which become repeat customers).

Regardless, again, a main purpose of this forum is to help you make up your mind. I\'m glad it served its purpose for you. Best of luck with whatever you decide bro.

CJ I see your point, the board has been helpful helping me make my decision. But I am surprised with how this doctor gets so much favoritism. It is very suspicious.

You too seem to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I look at the situation more like, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. I would not trust my penis with someone that lies about some things like the product he is using and how long it takes to fill the syringe.

But I hope your procedure goes well. No hard feelings buddy.

I am NOT affiliated with Avanti Derma nor Dr. Luis Casavantes in any way. I also receive no discount nor preferential treatment based on what I share regarding my PMMA experience here at PhalloBoards. Of course I\'m not present during every procedure. That\'s a ludicrous statement if I\'ve ever heard one! LMFAO! Ummm yeah... excuse me, \"Mind if I sit on your procedure? I\'m the PMMA Police and I\'d like to ensure you receive OEM/Authentic product.\" Also, patients that receive 20% concentrations, will likely not see the product. This is due to the fact that the 30% and the 10% are titrated in a sterile environment prior to implantation. Seeing how a large number of patients receive 20%, the surgical team mixes product in advance (this makes sense)

Doctor: \"Excuse me sir/madam. We have to mix implant concentrations so it\'s going to be a while. We enjoy wasting both your money and time as well as ours... It\'ll just be a little while longer\". Give me a break!

If you don\'t trust your doctor completely, why bother undergoing any procedure he might offer?

You\'ve stated that you don\'t trust Dr. C or his team. I respect that. Personally, I couldn\'t care less. However, if you insinuate that I or any of my dear friends here are \"pushing/promoting\" Dr. Casavantes\'s services or PMMA in general, I\'m going to kick you to the curb. You haven\'t been here long pal. I\'ve been here for ages. I\'ve never once lied about my experience. NEVER. And yes, I am in need of aesthetic correction. Never denied that either. Yes. Some members have experienced bad results. You want to single out doctors? Fine. That is acceptable. Calling the Administrator \"arrogant\" and suggesting that I\'m a \"shill\" for Avanti Derma is inexcusable. If I were, believe me, I\'d recommend everyone get it. As is, I recommend everyone wait for a superior option.

Oh... BTW, The reason that you may sense some \"favoritism\" when it pertains to Dr. Casavantes is this simple fact: Out of all the different methods available and weighing heavily on all the disasters, Dr. Luis has a fairly good track record. Compare his results to FFT, Alloderm/Belladerm/Magic/PLGA Scaffolds/Dermal Grafts... etc. His results are far from ideal. However, they are considered by many to be \"acceptable\". YMMV

Did you even read my message, you are all over the place. I never said you were present for every procedure !

Let me spell it out:

The letter said:
-It takes longer to fill the syringes than the actual procedure itself (which I know is an hour or two)

You said:
-I watched the doctor fill the syringe in front of me

I said:
-were you there all afternoon ? (sarcastically)

Huge warning flag, it does not take HOURS to fill the syringes. The doctor lied about this to discourage patients for asking for the courtesy to make sure they were getting metacril.. He lied. He lacks ethics. I will avoid him like the plague. If you want to defend his bad behavior fine, but don\'t do it for my sake. At this point I could care less about his practice.

And I did not attack you, so no need to get testy. We are grown men here.

Then by all means Snoopy... don\'t get the procedure. I don\'t recommend anyone get it. Also, from procedure to procedure, the whole ordeal can take several hours to merely minutes depending on the volume implanted/size of penis/lidocaine efficacy/patients expectations/compliancy of skin/concentration injected/etc.

Also, in the case of 20% LinneaSafe/Metacrill/NewPlastic... it can take a great deal longer than you might think. Titration takes time... a lot more time than injection of straight 10% or 30%. You should research titration of PMMA and the time required before assuming its akin to an insulin injection. Would you rather sit there and watch while the two concentrations are titrated? I wouldn\'t. My procedure lasted several hours. Sorry. I don\'t see bad behavior or immorality.

Does this sound like the statement of a grown man?

Miracle you obviously got the right stuff. congrad\'s the doctor likes you. probably because you write good things about him on the forum. yes he lurks here, that is why he wrote the letter.

Sounds personal to me.

CJ I think the doctor will make sure your get the real stuff do to all the controversy here. So at least something good will come out of this.

Who knows if enough people speak up maybe he will start acting more responsible with all you guys.