TOPIC: 125um microspheres and collogen

Hi 4johnybravo,

Actually the larger the diam. of the pmma microspheres (i.e. >60 microns) is in the opposite will give you a less collagen gain than the smaler ones (i.e.30-50 microns) per surface area.

And I am 100% sure about that and I have read it in an article I will try to find it for you.

A size <20 microns can be phagocytosed by the macrophages ---> migration and also foreign body granuloma formation.

So they found that the optimal pmma bead\'s diam. which can form the maximum amount of collagen formation and cannot be phagocytosed by macrophages was between 30-50 (and never larger than 60 microns) i.e. these pmma beads are 4-5x bigger than the red blood cells and white blood cells.

And also the reason for choosing this size of the pmma bead is their diam. are bigger than the diam. of the subcutaneous blood vessels so to avoid implanting these beads into blood vessels---> emboli.

Thats why Prof. Gottfried Lemperle found :-

1- As mentioned above for sub-dermal and subcutaneous space he chooses the diam. (e.g. 30-50 microns) because this size will be bigger than the diam. of the blood vessels and the lymphatic channels in this area.

2- For the treatment of reflux esophagitis, urinary incontinence and fecal incontinence he found that he has to form a bigger size of the pmma bead\'s diam. i.e. bigger than the diam. of the sub-mucosal vessel in these parts of the body and he found the diam. of 125 microns is the safest and the best to avoid any implantation of pmma beads into these vessels (G125, I125 and F125):-

www.ascentxmedical.com/technology-platform/technology-overview/

In summary:-

The 30-50 microns beads will give you more collagen formation than the larger (>60 microns) beads per surface area.

The volume of the new collagen formation will depend on the volume of the injected pmma\'s product into our body.

The firmness of the new collagen will depend on the concentration of the pmma.

yes dr. c uses metacrill which under microscope and not going by what the metacrill website say has a micron bead ranging in size from 30 to 60um. i know metacril VERY. but if anyone can chime in on collogen and larger diameter spheres it would be appreciated, ive messaged dr gotfried lamperle on facebook but i doubt he ever checks his face book, i know he could answer my question,

According to Dr C, he used 30% PMMA on his arms and for his patient\'s muscles...He never mentioned to me if the size of the spheres were any larger than other concentrations that he uses for the penis...Not much help, but FYI...

So E.O. is the way to go for PMMA, which Ive yet to research ethylene oxide and contact labs that use the gas but, they prolly charge more. I guess its not a good idea to oxidize the pmma beads, but i need a turn key source for sterilizing my two materials, i was gonna premix cmc with pmma in 10ml syringes and have them e-beamed, simple, but now if what your saying about chain linking in polyethylene,and how it may cause chain linking in pmma as well, then I should reconsider e-beam, having to pay one company 410$ to sterilize one thing and another company to sterilize my pmma in E.O. Any E.O. sterilizing labs you know of that are easy on the wallet? I almost do wanna just risk having my premixed syringes e-beam and risk it.. I know i just sounded stupid saying that, but nutek e-beams other peoples pmma in syringes already and it just makes me wanna go that way but i wish i knew to what degree does irradiation Cross link in pmma and to what degree it oxidizes the outer surface of the beads...

I guess if the 500grams of carboxymethylcellulose is in a gas permeable bag then E.O. would sterilize the powder I have.

Smartman, if you HAD to make your own pmma injecatble filler, and already had 500grams of 38-45um pmma beads, and had 500grams of Pharmacy USP grade high viscosity Carboxymethylcellulose powder, and had luer to luer transfer adapter and sterile water for injection, needing to mix them all together, would you premix syringes or have each powder sterilized first them mix and have sterilized? E.O. cannot penetrate a prefilled syringe correct? so itas contents must be out in the open on a tray right?

I never thought needing to mix pmma,CMC,and sterile water into a syringe would be such a hassle but I\'m GOING to stick with it till the end, eventually i get this down and have a turnkey process for myself.... if u would like to move this discussion to email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. i got my paypal account up and running...$ two head are better than one.

autoclavesporetesting.com/ethylene_oxide_EO_sterilization.htm

This method is not cheap.

The easiest way is you can buy Metacrill from Dr. Samy Passy in Rio. , but don\'t forget the most important thing with PMMA injection is the experience of the treating doctor and his technique and the usage of a blunt micro-cannula .

Definitely I would find an experienced doctor to do the injection for me and no one else.

yes you are correct, i should not be be so eager or think he should respond so fast. forgive me,

4johnybravo wrote: were you at smartman?

Please keep in mind Smartman take\'s time out of his day to voluntarily offer his vast knowledge & insight into matters pertaining to PMMA (and other topics as well). He\'s not obliged to respond to a topic quickly, or to respond at all. Should he choose to respond, he will at his convenience.

were you at smartman?

\"Solubility in other solvents, soluble in ethanol, cottonseed oil, corn oil, ethyl acetate, ... Polysorbate 80 is often used in food and other products as an emulsifier.\"

I have found several sources of USP grade polysorbate80 microbial free for injection, and the above statment shows it is soluble in oil, Gear or\"juice\" or \"suace\" or otherwise known as Steroids use, rapeseed,grapeseed,cottonseed, and several other oils, so as a solvent and dispersent in the oil polysorbate80 might work, will have to see, i plan on using sterile polysacharide synovial fluid oil with benzyl alcohol \"a mild solvent \" i already have, i got it from painlesspumps.com its just sterile oil for injection, all i need to do is test a 1/4 a gram of PMMA into 1cc of my oil to see is it can homogenouse, if not ill add polysorbate80 usp.. i could find nothing readlly on edta usp high grade for sale.


IS THE edta your talking about usp grade calcium disodium?which is the exact type, and name, is it the EDTA salt, or stabilizer salution, i see some USP grades, but other mixes in the chart say thier for auqeous salution or stabilizer salution.
EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.005 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-155EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.005 M Solution4 L$147.34E-180EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.015 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-180EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.015 M Solution4 L$147.34E-185EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.0575 N Solution500 ml$77.20E-185EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.0575 N Solution4 L$147.34E-190EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.06 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-190EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.06 M Solution4 L$147.34E-195EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.115 M Solution500 ml$76.67E-195EDTA Disodium Salt, 0.115 M Solution4 L$147.34E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 L$170.63E-105EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 L$170.63E-110EDTA Disodium, 0.01 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution4 L$170.63E-112EDTA Disodium, 0.05 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution4 L$170.63E-115EDTA Disodium, 0.0575 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution500 ml$83.43E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution6 x 500 ml$188.93E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution4 L$170.63E-120EDTA Disodium, 0.1 M Solution4 x 4 L$426.45E-176EDTA Disodium, 0.5 M Solution100 ml$95.24E-091EDTA Disodium, 10% (w/v) Solution125 ml$83.43E-091EDTA Disodium, 10% (w/v) Solution500 ml$100.53E-200EDTA Disodium, 2.5% (w/v) Aqueous Solution125 ml$83.43E-200EDTA Disodium, 2.5% (w/v) Aqueous Solution500 ml$100.53E-220EDTA Stabilizer Solution, 500 g/L125 ml$88.19E-220EDTA Stabilizer Solution, 500 g/L

Just to add some more information about PMMA\'s products the manufacturers add some elements in their products which will reduce the possibilities of clustering of the PMMA beads (which means it will reduce the rate of lumps formations) e.g. as far as i know :-

(EDTA) in Metacrill.

(Tween 80+Tween 20) in Artefill.

i stop to think about the suspension agent, CMC, its troublesome. yet I\'ve shot underground lab steroids sterilized in an oven. Ive come up with a secondary approach, Most of the testosterone i shoot into my quads is comprised of testosterone cypionate ester powder, USP pharmacy grade grape seed oil, and 0.9% benzyl alcohol to stop and kill bacteria. now I\'ve been shooting this stuff for 10 yrs and never had a problem, instead of using CMC, why not just suspend the PMMA beads in the USP grapseed oil,add 0.9%benzyl alcohol to the mix, and walla, I\'m injecting something that i know has worked for me for 10 yrs... it would cut the need for sterilizing CMC powder which would be 410$, and i would only be left with sterilizing the PMMA powder with E.O.

ARTEFILL uses bovine collogen
metacrill uses CMC,
i might use USP grapeseed oil with 0.9% benzyl alcohol.
thier are prolly 4 other suspention agents that could be used for PMMA. if not more. i think i need to think outside the box on suspention agents.

i had talked to sammy for over three weeks thru emails. i definatly concluded he will never sell me metacrill for the price i need, however i have calculated that i would have enouph in my bank to produce the amount i desire if i can get the sterilization figured out, ill have no problems... this is my main focus now.

I have talked to Dr. sammy passy on the phone and via e-mail for his prices and know the amount of PMMA i need is only affordable thru making it myslef, i have somone who will do the injections for me here in the USA, i just need the product, sammy passys prices are too high, far too high, and for whats in metacril i can make the amount i need at a fraction the cost that sammy would sell it to me for..

Dr.Samy told me before that he sells Metacrill you can try to send him an e-mail and ask him about the cost (it could be cheaper), but I really advise you; you should find a doctor who is expert and well-trained in pmma injection .


N.B. PMMA injection under untrained person can cause disaster (skin necrosis or even pulmonary embolism --> death ; esp if a sharp needle is used)
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