TOPIC: Filler of choice (help needed!)

Tstevens wrote: Hi,

So an update from my treatment...

...after around 10 years of considering whether to go ahead with treatment, I finally decided to go for Androfill in London.

After discussion, I agreed to have 15ml of the Androfill HA product. As I'm definitely below average with regards to Girth, so was hoping to see some noticeable gains. Once the initial swelling subsided, I would say that my Dick is only slightly bigger when Flaccid, but does hang better. When Erect, it feels and looks bigger which is great - I'd say, I've gained around 1/2 Inch and will take some measurements soon. Whilst it's not painful, it does feel like there is a bit more pressure in my Dick - as I'm uncircumcised, this may be as the Foreskin now doesn't retract fully when Erect. I would imagine the skin will adapt/some filler will be lost over time.

In terms of the look and feel - both are fairly natural and I'd be surprised if someone was able to tell. My Dick now tapers towards the head, so if I had money to burn, I may consider getting additional filler for there, but it's not a priority. I am a little disappointed that it doesn't look bigger when Flaccid but for now I don't think I'll be getting any more filler and am not sure it would look natural when Erect. I'll wait and see if time how the filler behaves and if it doesn't break the bank, would be open to having a top-up in 12/18 months time.

I hope this helps others. Feel free to ask any questions.

How would you describe Dr. Greta's bedside manner? I'm assuming she's the one that performed the work? I got to meet her in London, she's very polite, pleasant, and professional. I hope that comes through in her work & care. Thanks for sharing!

Yes, it was Dr Greta. I found her to be great – there was no awkwardness or making me feel uncomfortable, which helped a lot.

The clinic itself was not quite what I expected and the time before the appointment could have been better, but the appointment itself with Dr Greta was professional.

As an aside – it does feel like I've lost some of the filler already which is disappointing. Maybe it's just things starting to settle but I'm definitely not as big as a few weeks ago.

Which filler did you go for?

I was recommended their Androfill filler.

Hi, congratz on the results being positive.

Thank you for allowing us to ask some questions as this really helps. Once I get my done I will also document the entire journey as it truly helps others to see how this process works.
I am also uncircumsized and never want to get it cut. So glad to see filler works for you uncircumsized as well.

I have some questions if you don't mind

1) You said erect it looks and feels natural. Is it fairly hard, isnt Androfill too squishy when erect? Is it hard enough?
2) I will travel from Czechia, do you feel I should stay there more days or can I return home. In other words, how long was the recovery process after the injections.
How long were you sore and bruised. Did you stay in near hotel for a few days or headed home? Btw do you live in UK?
3) You paid £1890 for 15 ML correct?
4) How was the first consultation, did you show her your dick and she made judgement how to proceed? Were you given advice how much filler to add what to expect etc? How did you pay btw?
5) Were you nervous before and during the procedure ?
6) I was reading they have aftercare instrouctions on the website. Did you also have to mold it a lot after the procedure? To give it some shape?
7) Why did you choose greta instead of Horn in brussel?
You said you don't want to add more filler, do you feel it would be too unnatural? I was personally hoping to get 1 full inch but I guess 0,5 is still great improvement.

No problem at all - I understand how important it is to get some actual feedback on this - having genuine, unbiased information is so important for something like this. I'm grateful to the many people that I reached out to on here.

1. Yes, for me it feels natural in both the Flaccid and Erect state. There is a little bit of "squishiness" but in my case this is minor.
2. I took a morning flight to London and was flying back home by early evening. There is no pain, I was able to walk and move about no problem. I took it easy at home for the next few days but that's because I didn't; want to disturb the filler. Minimal bruising and swelling.
3.Yes, that the price I paid. I used bank card.
4. I had the consultation and treatment as part of the same appointment, which lasted around 90 minutes. The consultation was some basic medical questions followed by a quick evaluation. I;m sure you could send some photos in advance or have a video consultation if you wanted.
5. I probably wasn't as nervous as I expected to be. I think getting feedback from other people's experience helped with that. At the end of the day I knew worst case scenario would be that I could have the HA dissolved. I felt the potential result outweighed the risk of some slight embarrassment. You're never going to meet these people again and they likely have 100s of clients.
6. That was a big worry of mine! When I spoke with the doctor she explained how the treatment and filler has moved on a long way and that the only thing you need to do is avoid exercise, swimming and a few other things for a week or so afterwards. You don't need to mould or massage it. I decided to buy some collagen supplements but this isn't absolutely required.
7. I'm more familiar with London and getting there was easier. Plus all of the good feedback for Dr. Greta on this forum.
8. I'm now debating whether to get a bit more as I;m going to be in London again soon! I don't want to go for 15ml, so it comes down to whether getting 7/8ml will make any difference. I guess there's no guarantees, but I'm open to having more. Say it cost me 1,000 every 12/18 months to top-up, I would consider that.

I hope this helps. Feel free to DM if preferred.

Thank you for your answers. Much appreciated!

Just an update on my treatment (15ml HA at Androfill)

It's now almost 3 months since my treatment and almost all of the gains have disappeared. I measured earlier and I've around 0.1" Inch gain Erect. Visually it looks identical to before, to the point where I've almost forgotten i had treatment.

I wasn't expecting miracles but am really disappointed with the results. Am not sure what my next move is — more of the same, try another filler (Ellanse?) or just give up.

Sorry to hear it’s disappearing at such a rapid rate. Did you manage to see what the name of the filler they used was?

I was considering it but think that if I do, I’ll opt for Volux - but it’s all so expensive to be so temporary. I’d want at least 12 months before it’s half disappeared.

I had their own filler....which is what may be the issue is. It is what they recommended/pushed without much discussion about alternatives and the filler qualities.

I specifically asked them what they use but they wouldn’t tell me in case their competitors find out but said they’d tell me once I go to the clinic - which isn’t ideal as I want to know what is being injected into my penis well before I get to the clinic so I can research and decide without being put on the spot.

I’m definitely thinking Volux now but it’s so expensive.

Sorry to hear you aren’t happy with the results after such an expensive procedure.

This is quite concerning, I was also considering Androfill because I am in EU and they seemed to be reputable. Hopefully its just a fluke.

I completely agree - I really value transparency, especially when it comes to something being injected into your body. If competitors genuinely wanted to find out what product is used, they could just book a consultation (online or in person) and get that info anyway. So to me, the secrecy feels more like a way to get people into the clinic - once you’ve made the effort to travel or paid for a consultation, it’s a lot easier to be nudged into going ahead with the treatment.

Personally, I like to research and make informed decisions at my own pace. I don’t see why I should have to pay £150 or take a day off work just to find out what’s in the product - especially when some reports suggest it only lasts a few months anyway, which probably isn’t making competitors desperate to copy it.

For me, being clear about what’s going into someone’s body should be the bare minimum. Without that, you’re not really giving people the chance to make a fully informed choice.

NOTE TO READERS: This response is to members Tstevens, Dr. Sullivan, WildBill, and Ryan primarily, so it may come off as a bit off topic for those who were interested in the general theme of this topic and may or may not be interest to you; but be forewarned that it is a lengthy response for clarification's sake.

Tstevens wrote: Just an update on my treatment (15ml HA at Androfill)

It's now almost 3 months since my treatment and almost all of the gains have disappeared. I measured earlier and I've around 0.1" inch gain erect. Visually it looks identical to before, to the point where I've almost forgotten i had treatment.

I wasn't expecting miracles but am really disappointed with the results. Am not sure what my next move is — more of the same, try another filler (Ellanse?) or just give up.

Tstevens, sorry to hear about the longevity of your Hyaluronic Acid (HA) injections; while I typically think 6-18 months tends to be in line with reports from both Patients & Injectors over the past few years, there are anomalous/rare cases of less than 6 months and those 2+ years out. The brand of filler may or may not play a role as well, but I think that's harder to ascertain and probably not a major contributor since Providers of Androfill's caliber & long-standing reputation would want high patient satisfaction rather than fly-by-night cash grabs, which is why I believe they'd employ the best HA in available to them.

Have you reached out to them as of recently and what have they had to say?

Ryan wrote: This is quite concerning, I was also considering ANDROFILL because I am in EU and they seemed to be reputable. Hopefully its just a fluke.

I recommended to Tstevens that he should reach out to Androfill and explain to them his dissatisfaction and see if there is anything they can do to remedy it, or at the very least, figure out why he's not getting better HA retention. For example, does he use tanning beds? I know that may sound like a bizarre question, but they've been known to cause rapid break down of HA fillers. The longevity of HA filler is highly dependent on your body's individual metabolic rate and inflammatory response. Think of it less like growing hair and more like how quickly a bruise or swelling goes down after an injury. Some people's bodies resolve inflammation and break down fluids very quickly, while others take longer. The enzyme that breaks down HA filler (hyaluronidase) is naturally present in your body at variable levels, and its activity can be influenced by your unique biology, lifestyle, and even the area injected. This same enzyme is what Doctors can use to reverse some or most of the HA if you wish to reverse the enhancement. Due to these multiple variables, it may explain why HA's longevity window is so wide; it's not just the product, but the uniqueness of the patient themselves.

I believe, short of some external factors that are unknown to us at present time (example: habitual tanning bed user), Tstevens may very well present an anomalous case, but I can't make this call from an armchair. I would stress again he reaches out to Androfill before pursuing any other avenues, since Dr. Greta was his performing Physician, and at least give them the benefit of finding any possible resolution. Besides, Androfill have dealt with and seen every iteration of male phalloplasty over the past decade, so his case won't be the first they've seen, and for that reason, there may be reason to believe some ideas or solutions could be on the table.

Regarding the recent taboo of the term "Proprietary Filler"

I also want to issue a clarification (and I hope to get an even clearer response in terms of reasons why, but it doesn't change what I'm about to say) --> There is good reason why the term Proprietary Fillers has gained a bad reputation, since it has been associated with certain U.S. cases of patients who have seen Loria and/or his Affiliates who push said-proprietary fillers with vague buzzwords like "collagen" hoping most consumers are content with just that, when there is good reason to believe these fillers contain silicone oil and/or are being manufactured as something not approved by a regulatory body like the FDA.[/b]

I should note, that simply saying you use a Proprietary Filler doesn't automatically mean bad, evil, stay away -- but caution yes, especially in the States. A Proprietary Filler could very well be the use of HA and Radiesse subsequently in certain ratios, both FDA approved, and as long as you know those are in the syringe, then it isn't a big deal. It's only when you cannot be provided the details of your filler in your consultation with your Doctor with undeniable proof that the "Proprietary Filler" gets its unfortunate derogatory status.

Androfill, however, makes very clear that HA is what you are getting, and in fact, a separate topic even stated that the Clinic will provide the specifics of the filler in person so that they have full knowledge of what is being injected. You might ask, why not just state it publicly (e.g. on the website or over the phone)? If the patient gets that info mid-consultation, what's stopping them coming to the Forums to share it with the Community? To be frank, those are the finer details I hope to get later this week but I have every reason to believe the purpose is innocuous in nature. Examples include: (a) prefer keeping their competition from easily acquiring information on what they believe is the most optimal HA available in Europe, and a mention of it on a Forum is much different than shouting it from the rooftops of your website's frontpage, never mind the fact that filler preference is always subject to change; (b) some agreement with the actual manufacturer not to publicly associate it with penis enhancement if this specific filler's demographic is largely marketed toward female clients; (c) to weed out window-shoppers from genuine prospects to incentivize scheduling at minimum a consultation (I've heard too often hours of unofficial & unpaid consultations provided to men who ultimately get cold feet) -- I want to stress Androfill did not cite this or any of the examples I'm providing, but I want the Community to be aware of what goes on at many Male Enhancement Clinics I've spoken with; unlike "boob jobs" or "BBL's", penis enlargement remains an "on-the-fence" matter for many men, and sometimes creating incentive for men to actually walk through the Clinic doors may be a matter of telling them "if you wish to know more, please visit us at our Office."

Valid reasons for this policy approach? That's subjective of course, but not in the same breadth of omitting any & all information about the filler like we see here in the States -- we KNOW at minimum that we're dealing with medical-grade HA Dermal Filler and that's what you're getting.

WildBill wrote: I want to know what is being injected into my penis well before I get to the clinic so I can research and decide without being put on the spot.

I strongly recommend every man get an in-person consultation for these procedures. That said, for those too far, ask if they will do Zoom/Facetime/Google Meet appointments. Regardless, HA is clearly their filler, so unless you have a very specific request for HA, you can either ask them if they will consider it (assuming they even stock it), or opt for an alternative Provider. However I really truly don't believe they will put you on the spot, in fact Dr. Greta doesn't have a salesperson bone in her body and I haven't seen any feedback that she makes a habit by putting potential patients on the spot after revealing her HA preference/choice.

My Personal Take

Dr. Greta is remarkably conservative in her approach to safety thresholds and as far as I know, has still opted against the use of Ellanse (which has to be acquired through other Androfill Providers) because she prefers safety over near-permanency (that isn't a knock on Ellanse to be clear, as I'm personally an advocate of its use and it's demonstrated efficacy on par with medical-grade PMMA, but I digress). Francis, who runs the Administrative side of things at Androfill has been integral to them having been in operation longer than any other European outfit that I'm aware of. Androfill are the only English-speaking Clinic in Europe that I know of that has:

1. Been in operation specializing in male enhancement for at least a decade, even surviving the shutdowns during Covid that permanently closed other Male Enhancement Offices in the U.K.
2. Located in London's most prestigious medical district (for those who know: Harley Street), not some back alley Practice.
3. Pioneered the use of Ellanse in Europe (despite Dr. Greta's current decision to abstain), a filler quite popular at Avanti Derma, and still waiting for American FDA approval.
4. While some names pop up from time-to-time, Androfill is the most frequently cited destination in Europe for male augmentation (namely girth injections). Recent Dr. Greta reviews have been pretty good too.

Yes, for transparency's sake, Androfill is indeed a Sponsor here. However, I want to make it very clear that I turned down one potential European Sponsor due to questionable reviews, and another due to ethical concerns. Heck, I've turned down American Sponsors (or parted ways) due to irreconcilable differences, and I was the one to choose to make that decision. I say this to say that Androfill has earned my trust, and I hope my work here vouches for their legitimacy & credibility. Should I learn that they have crossed any serious lines, and depending on its nature, not addressed them adequately, I would be the first to report it here on the Forums.

Trust me when I say, I'm trying to find my European Readership more options, since competition will continue to breed innovation & improved value on the consumer end. However, until such time, Androfill remains the only Practice I trust for reasons outlined above. I have also had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Greta in person, Francis & family, and they are wonderful people. Francis strikes me as a business-oriented gentleman who has knowledge of male phalloplasty (in terms of history, innovations, & trends) on par with the likes of myself and some veteran PhalloBoards Moderators; Dr. Greta is remarkably passionate and is a patient-oriented Doc with great bedside manner and patience. And now that Francis has finally hired a new assistant, I really hope to get some of their developments on the PhalloBoards -- things like Dr. Greta (Urology) being involved in conferences & such abroad regarding the development of modern male phalloplasty.

I say this all to stress & emphasize that the caution & stigma of a Clinic/Practice/Medical Office telling you about their Proprietary Fillers without any other details whatsoever is a fair one, and one that should be avoided generally speaking. However, I wanted to equally stress & emphasize that Androfill does not fall under this umbrella, and while I intend on getting more specifics on their unusual (yet seemingly benign) policy regarding how they share specific information, I don't want anyone here to believe you are getting anything less than top-tier professionalism with the Androfill of UK. I don't think it would be fair or appropriate to conflate the Proprietary Filler quackery going on in the USA (associated with some questionable Physicians) and Androfill's current stance on sharing ultra-specifics outside of Consultation... because ultimately in the end you do know what's being injected, just not privy to the brand. Also note that what you read about some HA's on the Forums are not even available to European wholesalers, so going with Androfill is to go with their preference of HA brand, the mystery here borders on being inconsequential.

(Note* - I cannot speak on nor vouch for Androfill Affiliates, I am strictly referencing Dr. Greta's Office)
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Tstevens wrote: Just an update on my treatment (15ml HA at Androfill)

It's now almost 3 months since my treatment and almost all of the gains have disappeared. I measured earlier and I've around 0.1" Inch gain Erect. Visually it looks identical to before, to the point where I've almost forgotten i had treatment.

I wasn't expecting miracles but am really disappointed with the results. Am not sure what my next move is — more of the same, try another filler (Ellanse?) or just give up.

This is a little disappointing for us too.
If you contact us directly on WhatsApp or email, we can look into the product you had (it should be on an aftercare sheet given to you at the clinic).
It may be that your body, for whatever reason, metabolic rate and other factors, metabolises HA at a rapid rate and that HA may not be the best substance for you.
However, I would be very interested to see how the filler you had compares to the new product we use as Androfill.

If you are willing to have the new Androfill HA injected and then post online about its durability, we would do this for you at no cost, on the condition that you provide us with feedback and, ideally, also post on the forum.

We are currently in commercial negotiations with an Italian HA manufacturer and separately with a German distributor regarding the exclusive rights to use their product in the United Kingdom.

We have been using the new Androfill without the exclusive rights to the product now for two months and the results are promising.

The new filler we are using has a specific CE mark for penile augmentation, which is unusual as most fillers are used off-label.

None of the fillers we use are "hybrid fillers" or something we formulate at the clinic, or whatever is left on the shelf, as was suggested by Dr Sullivan.
We cannot manufacture these fillers in-house. We are taking a filler manufactured by a lab and acquiring a licence to market it as Androfill.

The products we have used in the past as Androfill have been Perfecta Subskin (made in France) and Pluryal by MD Skin in Luxembourg.
CE-marked HA fillers take years to develop and get the relevant certifications for use in Europe.

We hope to have our own filler created with the ideal rheological characteristics for penis enlargement by 2027. We have been quoted a six-figure amount to develop this HA-based filler, which will be a true "Androfill" filler, our own recipe if you like, rather than licensing an existing filler.