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TOPIC: PMMA Europe

PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709758

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Hi skeptical , i was wondering if there has been any updates since this post about PMMA in uk or europe? I was going to go for the fat transfer but after researching more ppl seem to think PMMA + HA together is better , ive only seen it in america but was hoping it has come over here since this post??

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709759

jay1 wrote: Hi skeptical , i was wondering if there has been any updates since this post about pmma in uk or europe? I was going to go for the fat transfer but after researching more ppl seem to think pmma + HA together is better , ive only seen it in america but was hoping it has come over here since this post??


Not really any PMMA updates in Europe unfortunately. However, if there was any good news, it's that Ellanse seems to last much longer than projected by its manufacturer, and its results are akin to PMMA. This is offered in Europe at places like Androfill and I'm sure others. Honestly, from all the reports I've seen, Ellanse is about as good of a PMMA-substitute one can get.

If you truly must have PMMA, you'll have to travel to the American continent (US / Mexico).

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709762

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Ok thanks , can you give me a ball park price for mexico and USA pls? I would have to factor in a flight and hotel etc if i did decide to come , would it be worth it with all this on top?

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709763

Ellanse seems safer than PMMA, but I understand why PMMA is more appealing, due to the permanent results. However, if you really want something permanent, then why not consider some dermal graft? Surgimend? AlloDerm? MegaDerm? Dermal fat graft? In Europe I believe Serbia has some good options, while in Asia you could look at Korea or Thailand. In the USA there are options for both Surgimend and AlloDerm.

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709771

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I will have to have a long think about what im going to do , at first i was going to get the fat transfer but it seems its not all that good afterall , im in the uk and i dont think the options are very good its either overpriced or the dr/surgens dont seem to be very good by all acounts , i think Androfill has the best options but apparently the person who does the proceedure doesnt seem to care if it doesnt go well and isnt much help by all accounts going off what some ppl have said here , my initial choice was with moorgate but they get slated so i dont think i would use them now. Its looking more and more like usa would be the best bet but its going to cost more getting there etc , maybe im over thinking it? I just dont know much about the different fillers atm as im new to this but i know i want long lasting as possible. Thanks anyway.

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709773

jay1 wrote: Ok thanks , can you give me a ball park price for mexico and USA pls? I would have to factor in a flight and hotel etc if i did decide to come , would it be worth it with all this on top?


It depends on volume, packages, etc. Plus prices can be subject to change. Your best bet would be to reach out; here are some PMMA providers to contact -->

Avanti Derma (Dr. Morales) (Baja California, Mexico)

Youthology Med Spa (Dr. Rupeka) (Ohio, USA)

Rejuvall (Dr. Carney) (Georgia, USA)


As for GENERAL ballparks, usually girth enhancement by way of filler seems to average around 7k-ish (but can vary per region up & down). I know that PMMA state-side can be even pricier.

Personally, I consider male phalloplasty a luxury elective, akin to acquiring a nice sports car; the effect & motivations are comparable. I believe in finding value for my readership (which is why I have encouraged Sponsors to promote and discount when possible), but I also can't stress enough the importance of NOT cutting corners with your one and only penis.

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Last edit: by Skeptical_One.

PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709780

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Thanks again , maybe ellance will do me? i just wish they had better reviews at Androfill , i will keep researching.

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709781

jay1 wrote: Thanks again , maybe ellance will do me? i just wish they had better reviews at Androfill , i will keep researching.


I think it is not a bad idea to start with Ellanse, and Androfill is a well-known clinic, so of course there will be some people with bad experiences. Not everyone will have a good experience in the USA either.

It is preferable to go someplace with a lot of experience, rather than someplace with no experience; meaning they won't have any bad reviews either because they are unknown.

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709783

jay1 wrote: Thanks again , maybe ellance will do me? i just wish they had better reviews at Androfill , i will keep researching.


Androfill has been around for a long time and have had innumerous patients over the years. If you are willing to look back on the older forums, they still by & large have a good profile. There were a couple of dissatisfied members here recently but the same can be said for virtually every Clinic, Sponsor or otherwise. A popular restaurant can still overcook your steak occasionally, doesn't mean it represents their body of work.

Androfill also has the experience that many other European outfits don't have, and when it comes to Ellanse, I would settle for nothing less in Europe. If there are any issues, Francis is the patient coordinator and he is pretty good at seeing patient satisfaction through. I personally know, I've chatted with many of their former patients over the years through PMs and Emails.

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709786

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Ok thanks very much skeptical , tbh they are probably who i will choose , just one last thing....it says on their website that the ellance and some others are not for first timers because of molding techniques , will this be a major problem for me if i havnt done it bfor? Would you recomend voluma first then Ellanse later? Thanks.

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709787

jay1 wrote: Ok thanks very much skeptical , tbh they are probably who i will choose , just one last thing....it says on their website that the ellance and some others are not for first timers because of molding techniques , will this be a major problem for me if i havnt done it bfor? Would you recomend voluma first then Ellanse later? Thanks.


I like Hyaluronic Acid (HA), or in this case Voluma (brand) as a first-time filler. If you end up liking it, you can continue with it (or opt for another filler), but I would consult with Androfill on this matter. Some Clinics may have a preference and it's best to strongly take that into consideration, since all they want are good results (good results = repeat business).

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PMMA Europe 1 year 4 months ago #1308709788

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Ok no probs.

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PMMA Europe 1 year 3 months ago #1308709838

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Mo05e88 wrote: Buying the filler is very easy in the UK and we are are not talking the copy crap from china. real filler that can be traced back to the companies by serial numbers and so on and bought from pharmacies. dont quote me but i think a low level nursing qualification is enough or even a low level 3 beauty qualification is enough to buy filler in the uk from a pharmacy.

Ellanse l is like £100 a ml/cc , cheaper if bought in bulk. Again dont quote me as this.... but proves my point how much uk practitioners getting masive profit when doing Ellanse.
BUT finding a skilled person to do the injections is the issue. Its why androfill and others can charge what they do. as at the minute not many are practiced in it.


you dont want some new trying it with a product like ellanse l. And if using Ha remember the chance of them messing up and needing to use the reversal stuff is high meaning then its cost more then uk companies by the time you are finished

In the Uk as more people do it they will have to drop the prices. As the competition will force their hand. Its not the filler price creating the issue its companies knowing some men will trade their left arm for a bigger unit. They all spowt the stats of male anxiety , this is not bashing androfill or any other company. its cold hard economics.

My wife is paying 4k for boobs , and thats a full on opperation in uk , fully put under. with the best mentor implants , with a top uk surgeon , a day in hsopital , full garments and nurses looking after her and a full year surgury guarrantee.

Us men get robbed haha

Mo05e88 wrote: Buying the filler is very easy in the UK and we are are not talking the copy crap from china. real filler that can be traced back to the companies by serial numbers and so on and bought from pharmacies. dont quote me but i think a low level nursing qualification is enough or even a low level 3 beauty qualification is enough to buy filler in the uk from a pharmacy.

Ellanse l is like £100 a ml/cc , cheaper if bought in bulk. Again dont quote me as this.... but proves my point how much uk practitioners getting masive profit when doing Ellanse.
BUT finding a skilled person to do the injections is the issue. Its why androfill and others can charge what they do. as at the minute not many are practiced in it.


you dont want some new trying it with a product like ellanse l. And if using Ha remember the chance of them messing up and needing to use the reversal stuff is high meaning then its cost more then uk companies by the time you are finished

In the Uk as more people do it they will have to drop the prices. As the competition will force their hand. Its not the filler price creating the issue its companies knowing some men will trade their left arm for a bigger unit. They all spowt the stats of male anxiety , this is not bashing androfill or any other company. its cold hard economics.

My wife is paying 4k for boobs , and thats a full on opperation in uk , fully put under. with the best mentor implants , with a top uk surgeon , a day in hsopital , full garments and nurses looking after her and a full year surgury guarrantee.

Us men get robbed haha


I know the calculations for your wife's breast augmentation.

Mentor implants £475
Anesthetist £250
Garments £45 (Macom)
Theatre 45 mins £975 (this includes the nursing support).
Surgeon's fee £400

At this point one could think £1,855 profit per boob job is quite high.
But it is not as simple as that.

There are also the following costs:
Marketing £550-600 (this is more expensive than the fee paid to the doctor).
Compliance and training (extensive rules and regulations to ensure patient safety) £150
Staff, marketing, aftercare, IT, accounting £400
Insurance £300

What is left over is around £400 per procedure, and this is without provisioning for revisions.
In summary a number of ‘Mega Firms’ such as MYA and Harley Medical are performing Breast Augmentation in a ‘conveyer belt’ style, for virtually no profit. If you check the financial accounts of these large firms they are all running at a loss. MYA (the largest provider of breast aug surgery) has been in and out of insolvency management for years and Harley Medical Group was struggling to make a profit a number of years ago and so decided to cut costs through buying breast implants from a French farmer turned industrial silicone merchant (google Breast Implant PIP scandal).
This then caused the 10,000 or so women to have to pay to take the illegal implants out.
The only way your wife can pay as little as £4,000 for breast implants is because either a shareholder of the firm, or a bank is propping up the clinic and effectively subsiding the procedure (it is loss-making at £4,000 if all costs are included). Breast implants need to be £5,500 to make a true sustainable profit. For you and your wife it is great, you are getting a procedure for less than the true cost. Each firm is essentially holding out and hoping that the competitor will fail allowing them to then increase the price to a sustainable level.

Ellanse is the most profitable product for us if we do not account for the risk. If we do factor in the risk it is the same risk-adjusted profit as HA. This way we do not have any preference financially to offer Ellanse or HA and that should be pretty clear in the way we market and the way Dr. Horn describes the filler during a consultation generally "Ellanse is risky, you probably should not take Ellanse, you are safer to try Hyaluronic acid".

The idea that Androfill is buying Ellanse filler for £100 and selling it for £300 and therefore making £2,000 on a 10 ml procedure is incorrect.
The end profit to Dr. Horn from an Ellanse procedure is around £25 per ml or £250 per patient.
Arguably this is not bad if it takes half an hour for the consultation and half an hour for the procedure.
The profit to the clinic is around £10-15 per ml.

I have removed some of the detail from the calculations of income, but if anyone is interested they can email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. and I will provide the full cost breakdown.

In brief:
Ellanse M we buy for £195 per box of 2 +VAT = £234 or £117 per ml.
Procedure price = £300 per ml
- £117 filler
= £183
- clinic insurance we work this out to be £9 per ml (£90 per patient)
- premises £210 per hour = £21 per ml on a 10 ml patient
We also provide unlimited free checkups, so if you have come back a few times and we need to do revisions, the clinic time alone can easily become a higher cost than Dr. Horn's fee. Dr. Horn does not want to cut the cost of the premises and move to 'consulting rooms' because they are not sterile and he fears patients getting infections and so on. When you are coming to Androfill you are coming to an actual hospital.
- staff around £15 per ml
- Dr Horn's medical liability insurance £10.20 per ml
- Marketing (this includes websites, seo and google ads agency fees, google ads, bing ads and so on), this is a significant £450 per patient or £45 per ml). This is the number 1 cost aside from filler.
- Disposables per patient £15 per ml (this means Emla cream, cannula, lidocaine, saline, scrub etc, hyalase if a revision is needed).
- Subscriptions, memberships, and compliance around £4 per ml
- Accountants £4 per ml
- Finance charges (overdraft, borrowings) £4.50 per ml
- Credit card fees £4.90 per ml
- IT (things like the booking system, upgrades to website, storage of patient data) - £4 per ml.
= 51.3 per ml
Tax = £10
£41.3

- Dr Horn profit £25
- Clinic £15

There are a few things not accounted for here.
- Depreciation
- Revisions and legal (this is why we do our best to avoid complications, complications come out of Dr Horn's £25 per ml / £250 per person)
- We could also consider that Dr Horn studying all those years to become a plastic surgeon deserves £250 per patient (factoring in all the costs of education and so on).

I have probably forgotten a few costs.
The UK is already so hyper-competitive for cosmetic surgery that most firms are either loss-making or cutting corners to make a profit.
If anyone doubts how competitive the UK is, compare the price for 10 ml of Voluma at Androfil UK (£1,990) to Androfill USA ($7,900 or 3.5x the price).
Note: These calculations apply to UK, there is more margin and profitability in USA and Australia.

As we know the figures in the UK we know when another firm is cutting corners on something (be that insurance or premises or security of patient data, or just downright sleight of hand type deals or confusing marketing).

When I see XYZfill competitor offers £300 less for 10 ml we know this is likely a parallel imported filler, or at worst a fake or chinese filler, or perhaps they are skipping on premium insurance or premises or similar.

The aspect of the price a patient pays which is a waste is the marketing. If we didn't have to market the price would fall £40-45 per ml.
The remaining components of the price of a procedure should be seen as an investment more than as a cost. The investment in your penis is to have this procedure done in an actual hospital, by a surgeon, who is properly insured should a disaster occur; to be able to come back for checkups at no charge, and also to know that we are actually making some income so we can do things properly rather than cutting corners. You also have an informed person such as myself on the other end of the phone following a procedure, rather than customer support person who might not be able to provide valuable assistance.

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Last edit: by Androfill.

PMMA Europe 1 year 3 months ago #1308709842

Hi Jay. I’m in the UK and started with Ellanse, so I’ve been through all the thoughts and feelings you’re going through and I’ve come out the other side and live to tell the tale! Lol

I’d be happy to chat to you if you’ve got any questions

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PMMA Europe 1 year 3 months ago #1308709845

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@Machinations hi thanks for the reply , well i have decided to go for androfill london but after speaking with them on the fone they highly recommended getting a small amount of HA filler (6ml to 8ml) bfore having the ellanse to basically get an idea of what its going to be like and so you can practice moulding etc , that is what im going to do i would rather be safe than sorry......was it you who had a bit of a nightmare with it or another lad? I cant remember which post i seen but one of them wasnt good by all accounts, it is worrying tbh reading the not so good results of some pple , how are you getting on now? and was it you who the bad result? Either way whats it been like?

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